I think people who want don't want children shouldn't be judged in any way. If they go to the doctors and ask for sterilisation/vasectomy they have obviously made their minds up and that should be respected by the medical community. I had my Vasectomy at the same age as Leanne's husband and I had one appointment before the surgery was booked, I don't think they appreciated me being a smart arse so I wasn't asked many questions. They asked me if I had kids and when I said I did they asked what would I do if one of them passed after the vasectomy? My response of "if I don't have a vasectomy will my spunk bring my child back to life? Because if so I think doctors are missing a trick". People don't make the decision light heartily and whilst it's good to be informed and have as much information as possible I think it's a personal decision that should be respected.
HunnyMonster - I read an article in Grazia a few weeks ago about lube.
It said that women are missing a trick not using it and that we should all start talking about it and ordering some right now. It was aimed at 30 year-olds and under.
Now, I'm menopausal and have noticed my ability to get wet when turned on is not as it was when I was younger - with the exception of when I used hormonal contraception. Then I was desert dry!
I wonder if younger women are needing more lube (and getting embarrassed about it) due to hormonal contraception use?
@ K&c30’s Haha, well they’re gonna love my smart ass mouth. In my eyes, a silly question is going to get a silly answer and I’ve heard all these questions before so I’ve got some ammo.
Q. What if you split up with your partner and then you meet “Mr. Right” and he wants kids?
A. If he wants kids then he’s “Mr. Wrong” to me.
Q. Who will look after you when you’re older?
A. Well, with all that money I saved up by NOT having kids I could retire in a nice care home…in Fiji.
Thanks so much for being understanding. I sure hope it only takes one meeting and not 10 to convince them. My partner said he doesn’t mind going with me so that could help.
@ Alicia4Ever What I don’t understand about the funding issues is that I’d be saving them money. Any future ongoing contraceptives, hormones and abortions would be squashed by this procedure. Not to mention it would cost them A LOT more if I had a child. I also thought that reversals weren’t funded by the NHS so that isn’t their cost?
You are right, it definitely has an effect on my well-being in general. It’s affecting MY body with hormones; affecting MY relationship with my partner. Yes, it’s doing its job as a contraceptive but it’s also affecting my life and making me unhappy. It’s also concerning that they won’t let me control my own body making me keep an ability I don’t want. If I don’t even have ownership over my own body, then I may as well have nothing and be a puppet with other people pulling the strings for me.
While overpopulation isn’t the main reason I don’t want children (I just plain don’t want them) it’s still an issue and I don’t think we can keep ignoring it forever. Hell, they should be paying me to get my tubes tied, lol.
@VR That’s a great point about lube! I always used to get embarrassed when I was “desert dry” as you said but just try to tough it out like it was normal (being stubborn). I suppose it made me feel less of a woman if I couldn’t get wet in a similar way a man could feel if he couldn’t get hard. But now I won’t do anything without lube. It just makes a world of difference for me.
one of my good friends told me when we were both 19 she wanted to be steralised. I told her no-one can know at 19. Looking back it know it was incredibly judgemental of me. She got it when she was older but she said she got hassle off everyone.
I know a few people that never wanted kids and guess what! Suprise suprise the women got the grief! We still live in a very sexist world.
You know your own mind, go for it!
It’s a really hard situation and I do feel so sorry for people who have decided they don’t want to have children but they are treated like they don’t know what they want by the medical profession. What I find really difficult to understand is that they will do it for sex workers so easily. I used to teach also and worked with children & young adults with lsevere special needs. Some were non verbal, doublly incontinent and parents would request at 18 that they would be sterilised sometimes earlier but forum rules etc. Even though they could have no chance of bringing up children they were still told no it’s against human rights to sterilise them. My argument would be but what about that babies right? Or the young Adult who would no doubt have to have a c section etc as wouldn’t understand the concept of giving birth. It’s a really difficult topic I know but I sometimes things laws need to change with the times.
@illtakethehighroad I’ve been saying I never wanted kids since I could talk, lol. I just don’t want them to turn around and say “come back when you’re older” because I’m older now. I’ve always felt this way and it has never wavered. Why would I need to wait longer?
Yes, it is still quite a sexist world. We have come a long way but there’s still a way to go, unfortunately.
@Fun&Funky Thank you. I just don’t like the double standard of it all. Having a child is the most life altering thing you could ever do but you don’t have to be a certain age to decide when you have one. Hell, I’ve seen people put more thought into what cereal to buy than when it comes to having a kid. But I have been saying the same thing all my life and yet I haven't thought about it enough? It's an insult!
It’s like they are saying having a child is ALWAYS the right choice and not having one is ALWAYS the wrong choice which is very damaging to people. No matter what people say, having a child or not is up to the individual and they shouldn’t feel pressured either way.
I didn’t know that about people with special needs- how interesting.
I'm very pleased to announce that I was successfully sterilised on the NHS in July with filshie clips. I have no kids and I'm keeping it that way. My implant was recently removed and I'm doing so much better without the hormones and I feel more like "me".
Oh! And I suppose I can answer my own questions now, lol.
1. How old were you when you got it done?
2. Was the doctor/nurse reasonable or did you have to fight for it and if so how did you convince them?
A. My GP didn't bat an eye and referred me straight away. I actually saw 2 gynecologists. The first one seemed to approve me without hassle but later did not feel "comfortable" with my age so referred me to a more experienced one. The second gynecologist was a tough nut to crack but I wore him down after an hour. I brought my research and partner with me. Basically, I gave him no leg to stand on. I had made an informed decision and nothing would stop me. I never raised my voice or got angry and was as professional as I could be with a doctor ranting on about how I don't know what I want.
3. Did you get it done on NHS or did you have to go private?
4. Did it make you happier? (or affect your sex drive, mood, etc.)
A. YES! After removing the hormonal implant, I'm starting to feel much better. My skin is getting clearing up and my sex drive is slowing coming back. It's still a bit too early to see how my periods are, though. I feel like a weight has been lifted off my shoulders.
5. How long did it take from the meeting and agreement with your doctor/nurse until the actual procedure? Weeks? Months?
A. I met my GP in early March and had my surgery in late July. So 4 months-ish.
6. How many times were you unsuccessful and were turned away before someone gave the ok? What reason did they have for turning you away?
A. Well, this was the first time I tried. I thought the consultation with my first gynecologist went ok until he seemed to change his mind and refer me to the other one. He never told me directly the reason but the second doctor confirmed it was mainly due to my age.
Well, there you have it. That's my little update. If you have any questions, just ask.
I'm glad you got the surgery you desired HunnyMonster. Not everyone wants kids and that is absolutely fine. I read so much about men being told no to a vasectomy due to their age and women no to sterilisation. Personally I dont see the problem, yes its permanent but so are children! I'm pleased it's all sorted for you.
@RosyCheek - Thank you. Agreed. While both are permanent I don't like the way only one of them seems to have an age limit.
Congratulations Hunnymonster I am pleased you got the outcome you were after and you are happier.
HunnyMonster29, that's great to hear, I'm so happy for you! !(upload://l9s9e23YKLHpoOzgGVeUkhZGcEr.gif)!(upload://4WyQT1gwKaQJNwhYxrKZ1rOPglF.gif)
You wrote that you brought your research when you went to the second gynecologist. May I ask what it was?
I am SO pleased for you.
My friend's daughter has just been in for her fourth abortion. She has NEVER wanted kids, has asked several times about sterilisation and given the same old excuses about not knowing her own mind, what if future partner wanting kids and, of course, the cost.
The cost?! How much have her abortions cost? She's sensitive to hormonal contraception - it affects her mental health badly - yet they don't find an issue with cost sending her for CBT whenever her mental health has taken a downturn on hormones. Nor have they found a cost issue trying implants, placing and removing Mirena and then Skyla(?).
She now gets condoms free from her GP but they've failed and forced the trauma of not just an unwanted child but an unwanted abortion on her. I've visited her with her mum a few times and she has definitely been traumatised after them. I'd go as far as saying she's now suffering with PTSD (not that I'm an expert).
What on earth is wrong with with the medical professionals allowing this kind of treatment?
I firmly believe in 'your body, your choice' whether that's for abortion or sterilisation or even contraception. Years ago I used to work in a GUM and the amount of young women being given NO contraceptive choice other than what the particular doctor thought they should be given was shocking and took no regard of potential side-effects, which when they complained about them were then ignored. Many women were considered to idiotic to be able to remember to take a daily Pill! I was so relieved to see male doctors being replaced by females as MOST of the females were much more sensible with their patients (unless there was a push by the Board to place as many Mirena as possible!)
I sincerely hope that anyone, male or female, who goes for sterilisation gets treated like an adult human being and given THEIR choice.
@HunnyMonster: good for you for standing firm, staying calm, and going in armed with research. I'm really pleased that things went the way you wanted. I hope you are making a good physical recovery and it is great that your hormones are having a clear-out and getting back to normal. I agree with others that lube is always a good thing :-)
In my view people should be free to be honest if they don't want children rather than having them out of convention. Children are a joy if they are wanted and have parents who love them and put the time in, but kids who do not have good parenting can have a miserable time.
My experience was different but in some ways similar. I recognise that sense of always just knowing what you want. It doesn't even have to be a rational choice - just a gut feeling. I always wanted kids and was gutted when I was told not to have any more. It was quite a viseral 'need' to have a 4th even though having the 3rd nearly killed me and 4 would have been financial madness. So I can understand when it goes the other way too - if people just know that they don't want to be parents, or know that they want to stop after one child etc, then who is to judge?
A lot of people - depending on upbringing and life experiences - spend much of their 20s getting themselves sorted one way or another, so I can understand some of the hesitance in the medical community to act during that period, but each case needs to be assessed on its own merits.
Good for you, and good luck.
@Smultron- Thank you! I actually brought it along at every meeting I had, lol. Just in case.
I basically wrote an essay that expressed my thoughts and feelings on the matter and added the references/findings separately in case that's all they wanted. And I was right to do so. The gynecologist was only interested in the actual studies and read through some of them. (I marked out the important bits in bright yellow so you couldn't miss them, lol).
The most useful one is the CREST study. To sum it up briefly, the regret rate of sterilisation for mothers under 30 at the time is 20.3% and mothers over 30 had a 5.9% rate. However, for women under 30 who had no previous births was just 6.3%. So frankly, he couldn't argue about regret, lol. In fact, it's actually parents who are more likely to regret being sterilised- not the other way around.
Another one I found goes by education level and not age or how many children a woman has. Women with a high school education or lower have a 15% chance of sterilisation regret/reversal request. Women with at least a bachelor's degree have just a 3% chance (and I have a degree).
Both these studies/findings (and a few other smaller ones) can be found on the NCBI website.
Hoped this helped.
@ VR - That sounds awful having to go through all that when a quick simple fix will help her. What I don't get is that doctors will happily give you LARCs and pills until you hit menopause or die but won't sterilise you even though the outcome will be the same? That's all sterilisation is really- a permanent contraceptive. I'm glad I don't have to deal with those horrible hormones or faff around in general anymore. Honestly, some doctors seem to like to play god and treat people like livestock.
I agree, let people have their choice. Unfortunately, some people see not having kids or being sterilised as the "wrong" choice and it will be a matter of time before you make the "correct" one or you just need some persuasion. "Oh, this person doesn't want kids? Must be defective. They'll come to their senses in the end. Give it time." Yeah, that's not how it works... some people just don't want kids and that's fine.
@ MsR - Thank you! Yes, I'm basically healed now and I went back to work 6 days later without much discomfort.
I agree. Even when I was a child I knew I didn't want kids and like you said, a gut feeling. I'm just happy my body has aligned with my mind now.
Yes, I don't think one should be purely judged on age but if you are technically an adult you should be allowed to make adult decisions. I believe in Denmark it is actually illegal to refuse a woman who is 25 years or older sterilisation and there is no waiting period. But if a woman is 18-25, she will have a 6 month "thinking" period. I don't think that's a bad system. I would have been happy to have this done at 18, lol.
Great thread @Mint-Monster - can’t believe I haven’t seen it before
Can I ask how long after your sterilisation did your periods return to a normal, regular pattern? If they did?
I have a phone consultation on Saturday to hopefully get an in person consultation to have my implant removed. I have been on it for 6 years now and I hate it - totally irregular and unpredictable periods which not only are a hindrance to our sex life but the hormones play havoc with blood sugar and insulin ratio requirements (Type 1 Diabetic).
If they let me, I will go back to Depo (surely a 6 year break is enough?!) as the injections suited me perfectly and I had no side effects from them other than no periods which was perfect. If they don’t let me then sterilisation is probably the way to go. I have been telling them since I was 17 that I don’t want kids… at 37 I think they’re finally believing me!