someone owes me money - what to do?

Off-Topic Chat
1

Before I start - yes, this should maybe be on the RANT ALERT!!! thread BUT I need direct advice from you so have done it thru my own thread (hope that makes sense).

Right, back in April I lent someone £500 for deposit on new rented accomadation. I shouldn't have for lotsa reasons but now I KNOW I really shldn't have because I resently learned that she owes a housemate's of mine £300 (lent afew mths before I lent the £500). I have also found post of hers (already opened) in the recycling bin - being a good girl I saved it from the recycling and thought I'd best take it round to her. However, I couldn't help but notice the typing in bold that states she owes £993 to Tmobile and they were proceeding with legal action due to non-payment.

Now, I had a contract written up which she, me and my OH (witness) signed stating the money would be paid back to me by the end of June. I've had nothing as of yet. However she did tell me a week before end of June that she wouldn't have the money in full but that she'd set up a direct debit so asked for my details which I gave her. She promised £40 would be in the following weds. Weds came and no joy. I rang her but got no answer and she txted to say as my bank wasn't on high street she cldn't pay it in - I tried to call but again cldn't get thru so I explained how to set up a direct debit. Nothing from her until the following day when she texted to say she'd have it in the afternoon and to come round then, now I want my money but I had an appoinment that afternoon and couldn't get to hers. I told her this and said I'd be over friday lunchtime. Didn't get a reply back until ten mins to 12 (when I'd already left) and she txted to say she had to go out! I tried phoning several times but she was ignoring me.

I can sooo not afford to lose that money but it looks like I may well do. OH is coming with me to hers for a visit - I just need to know if she intends paying me back. I went and visited her place when she first moved in and funny how she's skint but her bf brought her a big fuck off new tv and sky!!

I've aafew things on her - like she claims housing benefit for herself yet her bf lives with her (he works) and she has an American Pitbull terrier that isn't registered, insured and doesn't wear a muzzle when out - if the law found out (ie it attacked someone) then she'd be facing 6mths inside and/or £3000 fine.

I guess I need to ask her if she has any intention of paying me back. From going on what I've learnt about her recently though I doubt it. So, what I'm asking is what to do now? Any advice PLEASE much appreciated. Thanks OA in advance. D69 :-s

2

To me, it sounds like she has no itention of paying you back.

If that was me, I would go round their with your OH and ask her directly, if she says no or blabs on, then I would take legal action. At the end of the day, she asked if she could borrow it and you both signed that contract.

Besides, they will probably look into her situation and funds etc and find she is claming but has a bf who works.

Really hope it gets sorted.

Keep us updated.

MM xx

3

If you have a contract signed I think you can put it to legal means, as there is hard proof she owns you money (good thinking you have this one). So I agree with MM, first try to meet with her and remind her of the contract and inform her that if she does not pay it back (either in 1 go or parts on agreed dates) you are going to take legal means against her.

And I agree it is likely when a legal means are taken against her, they will assesst her financial situation and will find out about the claims.

Good luck, tell us how it goes.

4

I would try and put the bits about benefits and the dog to one side for the time being, as whilst informing authorities may make you feel a bit better in the meantime, it's not going to make you feel any good in the long run (if you're anything like me anyway), and it's not going to help you get your money back.

I would start investigating legal options. I don't know what you've got written in your contract, but it is worth noting that the document is only evidence of a contract, it is not a 'contract' itself. Nevertheless, it's a strong starting point on which to proceed.

I would be looking at the small claims court (which covers claims up to £5000). There is always the chance that simply completing the applicable forms and giving them to her might be the impetus she needs to persuade her to give the money back. Shows that you're serious and you know your legal rights (even if you're bluffing a bit). Unfortunately that can also have the effect of severing any residual friendship, but it doesn't sound to me like you're worried about that.

(As a side note, completing small claims court forms can sometimes be an effective way of dealing with companies when they're being a nuisance.)

Basically, I'd try 1) talking to her again, 2) talking to her and reminding her of the contract, 3) talking to her, reminding her again about the contract, and then letting her know you're not afraid of legal action, and then, if needed, 4) fill out the small claims court forms and give a copy to her. Obviously, if still needed, then you can go further and file the claim at court.

Hope that helps! Anyway, best of luck!

(Also, just to say this is just my basic advice, I don't mean it as professional advice).

5

THANK-YOU MM, Laveila and TheKittyKat - all taken on board and gives me clear advice on what to do now. I feel a complete tit for lending it to her BUT I am NOT going to back down in my quest to have it back! All I know for certain is that she's guna have BIG problems with getting credit in the future and, probably, forever - but that's her problem not mine! Do you think I should pass on her new address to the company hunting for their £993 ? Last thing me and housemates need is them coming here and bailifs taking our stuff!!!

Do I need a solicitor if it ends up in court?

Will defo keep you all posted though (ofcourse!) Thanks again and if you think of anything else TELL ME please!!

D69x

6

Did she used to live with you?

7

MasqueradeMinx wrote:

Did she used to live with you?

She was a housemate.I mean house'mate'. The house is much better without her as we seem to have our equilibrium back since she left. I told my (live-in) landlord I'd lent her the money and he thinks am very generous and its good to be so. He also said that as I did it for the benefit of the house then the house could pay me atleast half of what she owes IF she doesn't pay it back. Which is really nice but I kinda want to make sure she knows messing me about isn't ok. Not in a violent threatening way (not me at all) but so she might learn - which's doubtful but gotta be worth a try!

8

Although I am not 100% sure how it goes in UK, in CZ the companies asking for money do go to the registered address of the person owing them money and they do take stuff in the house, not making sure it does belong to the person. And you have to proove it is not hers, but yours. So I think I would pass her new address to secure myself. IF you cannot proove it, they can put it into auction to cover the persons depth.

9

Divine69 wrote:

MasqueradeMinx wrote:

Did she used to live with you?

She was a housemate.I mean house'mate'. The house is much better without her as we seem to have our equilibrium back since she left. I told my (live-in) landlord I'd lent her the money and he thinks am very generous and its good to be so. He also said that as I did it for the benefit of the house then the house could pay me atleast half of what she owes IF she doesn't pay it back. Which is really nice but I kinda want to make sure she knows messing me about isn't ok. Not in a violent threatening way (not me at all) but so she might learn - which's doubtful but gotta be worth a try!

I would inform the company that she has moved, so please don't send any more mail this way. You don't have to give an address, its up to you.

10

Laveila wrote:

Although I am not 100% sure how it goes in UK, in CZ the companies asking for money do go to the registered address of the person owing them money and they do take stuff in the house, not making sure it does belong to the person. And you have to proove it is not hers, but yours. So I think I would pass her new address to secure myself. IF you cannot proove it, they can put it into auction to cover the persons depth.

Laveila, you're somewhat right in what you say.

One means of enforcement available to companies is the writ of fieri facias (more commonly known as the writ of fi fa). This is only available in the High Court. The court seals the writ, which is then served by the judgement creditor to a High Court Enforcement Officer (of the judgement creditor's own choice – normally a big one). The HCEO then has to gain lawful entry to the premises of the judgement debtor, and can then seize goods to the value of the debt to satisfy the judgement and the costs of the HCEO. Such goods exclude a number of items: tools, books, vehicles and items that are necessary for the judgement debtor's job. Clothing, bedding, furniture and household provisions for satisfying the basic needs of the judgement debtor must also be left. In practice, the goods are commonly never removed from the judgement debtor's premises – the HCEO will mark all 'his' goods with a sticker and leave them there – this is called walking possession; they are then only removed if they are sold by the HCEO before the judgement debtor can pay the debt. There is a minimum amount of £600 for a writ of fi fa.

Warrants of execution are the equivalent enforcement procedure in the County Court. The basic procedure is the judgement creditor will file for the procedure at court, who will then instruct one of their own bailiffs (an officer of the court) to carry out the procedure. Once walking possession has been obtained, the same procedure follows.

Anyway, it shouldn't actually be a problem for D69, but thought I'd post that lot for a) general knowledge and b) as information for D69 in case that was a worry. Nevertheless, if you want to be entirely sure, you can inform T-Mobile (and any other company) that she's not there.

11

You do not need a solicitor necessarily to go the small claims court.

Yes, you have the legal right to go to court. You could get a solicitor to write to her on their headed paper.

However, you will have to pay costs upfront and even getting the judgment against her won't force her to pay, meaning you will have to go to court to get it enforced, where they can ge her stuff seized. But this is a lot of effort, time and money on your part.

I'm not saying don't go to court, but be prepared it isn't easy.

I would probably recommend trying to sort something out with her, tell her to meet you for a coffee (near your bank) and drag her down there.

12

I think it is not so strick in CZ. I know they can remove items from the house, so you can end up loosing your TV or laptop and you have to proove it is yours, not the persons and take it to the main depot with them, not just leave a sticker there. I think it does cause a problem when someone in the house owes money and the rest does not know and their things are being taken away and they have to proove before court they belong to them. So I would inform them at least she does not live there anymore, even if not passing an address, just to insure myself (although there is something called permanent address in my country and if they dont get the current address they will use the permanent address to take their claims, so eg parents can find themselves loosing things because their offspring did not change the address).

13

I have to admit because it's a little late I haven't given the whole thread a proper read and I'll come back tomorrow although the others have kind of covered it but the first thing that strikes me is you need to report her for benefit fraud if you know she's claiming some sort of housing benefit, claims she lives on her own, but in fact doesn't.

https://secure.dwp.gov.uk/benefitfraud/

Totally takes the piss if she is - report her!

Angel x

14

I'm sorry that you have this problem. As Hella says, the small claims is the right way to go about it - you can even do it all on line. Unfortunately, when running a couple of small businesses as we do you get to be all too familiar with the process!

My only concern regarding the document you have is that it might be deemed not to have been independently witnessed which gives her some wiggle room. I agree with Hella that, in her position, personal bankruptcy is almost her only option. Sorry not to be more helpful.

15

Those letters to her, don't take them round, or put them in the bin: return them with "not at theis address". Since you're not really meant to know what's in mail not addressed to you, you shouldn't be able to contact those companies in the first place, and they may find that suspect, so just bouncing the mail lets them know thery're not reaching her at that address.

I've had loads of trouble, since the people living here before me skipped town with a bollock-load of debts, have had baliffs and everything calling around trying to heavy their way in "just to check" (refused, and they've no legal right to force entry without a warrant/police official, so no danger there).

If you return the mail, usually they'll just send a wee clerk-ish guy around to have a look, see if it looks legit, and who will be more than happy to take an updated address for her. If you don't, or she's refused to respond to mail she got before she left, chances are the larger, more intimidating guys will be sent, and they can get fairly nasty. Depends on how protected by the law you and your property are, but here at least they had no power, and just were hoping to scare me into doing what they wanted, and when that didn't work had to piss off for themselves. Even if they can't do anything, it is worrying, so better to try and look as helpful as possible, returning mail and giving new addresses and such.

Plus, if you don't let them know she's not there, they'll keep sending mail. Hell, I've been here three years and still get 'notices' for that idiot! Best one is the council, who keep sending letters asking for rent arrears from him, when they're the very ones who rent to me, so they know! Blasted muppets.

Might also be worth looking into if your address is blacklisted. Mine is, and I'll have to pay to get it cleared if I ever want serious financing or a mortgage or anything. Pain in the arse, but better to find out and see what it'll take to strike her off the record for the address and clear it in case it ever comes back to bite you. Like, I even had to pay a £200 deposit to BT when they put my line in, because thanks to the blacklisting I was seen as a credit risk despite having not had so much as a late payment.

16

right.
this contract, you say you got your OH to witness it yea? well im sorry to tell you that isnt legal. you cant have a family member/partner be your main witness. it takes two witnesses for a personal contract, only one of whom can be a relative.

on the form should be these signatures/dates
borrower
1st witness (which can not be a relitive)
1st witness address
1st wittiness occupation
2nd witness (which can be a relitive)
2nd witness address
2nd witness occupation

you also need a legal stamp to confirm it is a legitimate contract, normally these are red but can also be gold or silver.

on the contract should also be a agreed upon payment schedule or ending date for contract as well as other things.

you might as well rip that contract of yours up because its not valid, sorry.

now, if the contract was valid i would tell you to file a claim @ https://www.moneyclaim.gov.uk however, basicly, if they dont respond to the claim within 2 weeks you win without ever having to deal with them (ive done this many times) but if they contest the charges then you go to court and you have to prove your claims and a illegal contract wont win you the case im afraid. ive had 2 instances where a error on my part (typo) caused me to loose out.

im betting your going to have alot of people tell you that because you have a contract you can take them to court bla bla bla.
but no.

valid contract means you have a case, invalid contract means you have a personal agreement and under the legal definition of a contract is not a contract. it is a moral arrangement. when in court and the judge tells you that your contract isnt valid you cant turn round and say "but im morally opposed to them not paying me back" also another problem you have is if you take it to court, contract is deemed invalid, the defendant can turn around and sue you in the same manner you have sued them.
my advice, if you dont want to turn into a heavy then write it off.
my credentials on this subject

one of my degrees are contract law
ive been a personal money lender for about 6 years. i deal in small loans (under £500) similar to payday loans. when people dont pay i visit theie home,work,family everyone. for the most part shaming them into paying works everytime. however there are some that wont pay up. i am a registered bailiff aswell as a SIA registered vehicle immobilizer. i "pass the debt on" to a debt collection company which i also own and getting a letter saying its gone that far hammers it home normally plus when they pay i get extra money because of the interest/fees i tacked on for "passing it over" to a debt collection agency. if they dont pay after that i take them to court with my legitimate contract.

17

Dirty Red Angel wrote:

I have to admit because it's a little late I haven't given the whole thread a proper read and I'll come back tomorrow although the others have kind of covered it but the first thing that strikes me is you need to report her for benefit fraud if you know she's claiming some sort of housing benefit, claims she lives on her own, but in fact doesn't.

https://secure.dwp.gov.uk/benefitfraud/

Totally takes the piss if she is - report her!

Angel x

Thank-u DRA - already done this on sat aftnoon, despite advice now have saying leave that be, no not me, had to do it for everyone's sakes

Well thanks mrbumps really do appreciate what you're saying BUT she will NOT be getting away with it (not a threat, a promise).

Everyone else - THANK-YOU VERY MUCH FOR HELPING, will keep you posted..........................

18

Just thought I'd pitch in to say that if you go down the small claims route, I had to do similar a few years back. We won our case although the other side pushed it all the way to court rather than settling. We didn't hire a solicitor and did it all ourselves. The forms were a bit confusing and it took a long time from filing the claim to getting to court (approx 6 months), but the process itself wasn't too complex. The judge didn't expect us to be able to articulate complex legal views - rather explain exactly what had happened (with written evidence from witnesses, diary of communications/texts messages etc) and he then gave his judgement together with the legal backing for it.

From personal experience, if you do file a small claim, read, re-read and read again the forms and associated notes to make sure you understand everything and have filled in the correct sections with the correct information. Don't be afraid to ask citizen's advice for help and if it goes to court, make sure you submit all your evidence by recorded delivery so you have proof of delivery. We also sent a letter to the other side before we filed the claim to tell them that they had 14 days to either pay or arrange to pay us in instalments otherwise we would be filing a claim. We were advised that the courts don't look too kindly on cases if you don't give the other side one, last, written chance.

As mentioned above, winning your case doesn't mean you will definitely get paid. We knew that the people who owed us had enough to pay but if this girl is in dire straits, you might end up being down the court fees as well as the original money.

19

Divine69 wrote:

Dirty Red Angel wrote:

I have to admit because it's a little late I haven't given the whole thread a proper read and I'll come back tomorrow although the others have kind of covered it but the first thing that strikes me is you need to report her for benefit fraud if you know she's claiming some sort of housing benefit, claims she lives on her own, but in fact doesn't.

https://secure.dwp.gov.uk/benefitfraud/

Totally takes the piss if she is - report her!

Angel x

Thank-u DRA - already done this on sat aftnoon, despite advice now have saying leave that be, no not me, had to do it for everyone's sakes

I agree, why should you leave it. We don't all pay our taxes and what not for the fun of it. We do it because we have to and if you're getting money you're not entitled to them you should be reported, not least because you're taking money from the genuine cases. Simple as IMO. Good on you for doing it x x