Thought provoking video (not graphic just an interview with 2 ex porn actresses):
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=jRZZAuPyG7I
LV
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r0q_VGacfNk (Dead Porn Star Memorial)
The above is pretty sobering too, and makes it crystal clear that after porn, cast aside, there is a level of self-harm/ suicide in this industry that is shocking. The music is moving too:
"I don't want my Mum to know that I never loved my life, and I sold my soul"
See also "Sex, the Annabel Chong story" and "The dark side of porn" by channel 4 for similar enlightenment
Lord_Vetinari wrote:
Thought provoking video (not graphic just an interview with 2 ex porn actresses):
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=jRZZAuPyG7I
LV
Ok I watched the vid. Where are trying to go with this. Every where you look there is exploitation. Personally I don't think either of these two ladies help put this argument across well at all. The one one on the left says it's all so wrong and bad yet still makes herself look like a porn star, why?. All I here is constant moaning and whinging not a very constructed argument.
The main issue I have is poor decision making and lack of education. There is no way in modern western society that you cannot find all this out before you go into the porn industry. Instead of using the web for things like face book and playing games. Use it for the supreme education tool it can be. As a child I can remember my parents buying me a 3rd hand set of the Britannica encyclopeadi for my education. Now you don't even have to know how to spell a question to get an answer in seconds.
Secondly there is no substitute for hard work. I believe that a (LOT) of young women are naive enough to think that they all can become celebrities, wags or models. They just want easy money. Why would you think any different. 5 years of hard slog at university or easy money for having sex in front of a camera? Why would you want to stand on a production line in a factory for minimum wage instead. Personal morality maybe? I am sorry but it's poor life choices. Before you all get on the so wrong band wagon, granted there will be some orphans and abused women but porn is a symptom not the cause.
I saw an eye opening interview with belladonna recently that certainly changed my attitude towards porn.
The emotional and physical consequences for women in the industry are horrendous. I know people will always try and defend their 'choice' to enter the business but most women must do so out of desperation.
Ok I watched the vid. Where are trying to go with this. Every where you look there is exploitation. Personally I don't think either of these two ladies help put this argument across well at all. The one one on the left says it's all so wrong and bad yet still makes herself look like a porn star, why?. All I here is constant moaning and whinging not a very constructed argument.
The main issue I have is poor decision making and lack of education. There is no way in modern western society that you cannot find all this out before you go into the porn industry. Instead of using the web for things like face book and playing games. Use it for the supreme education tool it can be. As a child I can remember my parents buying me a 3rd hand set of the Britannica encyclopeadi for my education. Now you don't even have to know how to spell a question to get an answer in seconds.
Secondly there is no substitute for hard work. I believe that a (LOT) of young women are naive enough to think that they all can become celebrities, wags or models. They just want easy money. Why would you think any different. 5 years of hard slog at university or easy money for having sex in front of a camera? Why would you want to stand on a production line in a factory for minimum wage instead. Personal morality maybe? I am sorry but it's poor life choices. Before you all get on the so wrong band wagon, granted there will be some orphans and abused women but porn is a symptom not the cause.
Well we're all guilty of making poor decisions at some point irrespective of how well educated we may be but that does not give anyone the right to exploit us.
I take your point about young people (it's not just women) wanting fame and there are those who will take that desire and use it for their own ends. You only have to look at X Factor, never mind the porn industry, but the reason expoitation occurs is because there is a demand.
As for getting on a band wagon I have no intention of doing so. I simply posted the clip for people to discuss.
LV
Calling it the truth about porn is an unnecessary blanket statement. Not all porn is a result of human trafficking, some are just people working alone. You'll understand if I don't suddenly delete my entire porn collection.
These women have made a career out of it and it hasn't convinced me that their lives would have been better had they never got into the porn industry.
There is nothing i dis-trust more than anything with the word "truth" in the title.
There has undoubtedly been exploitation in parts of the porn industry, but that does not mean that all porn is explotative
There's a lot of consensual, positively loving it, amateur porn out there
There can never be a single "Truth" to represent a whole industry.
Lord_Vetinari wrote:
Ok I watched the vid. Where are trying to go with this. Every where you look there is exploitation. Personally I don't think either of these two ladies help put this argument across well at all. The one one on the left says it's all so wrong and bad yet still makes herself look like a porn star, why?. All I here is constant moaning and whinging not a very constructed argument.
The main issue I have is poor decision making and lack of education. There is no way in modern western society that you cannot find all this out before you go into the porn industry. Instead of using the web for things like face book and playing games. Use it for the supreme education tool it can be. As a child I can remember my parents buying me a 3rd hand set of the Britannica encyclopeadi for my education. Now you don't even have to know how to spell a question to get an answer in seconds.
Secondly there is no substitute for hard work. I believe that a (LOT) of young women are naive enough to think that they all can become celebrities, wags or models. They just want easy money. Why would you think any different. 5 years of hard slog at university or easy money for having sex in front of a camera? Why would you want to stand on a production line in a factory for minimum wage instead. Personal morality maybe? I am sorry but it's poor life choices. Before you all get on the so wrong band wagon, granted there will be some orphans and abused women but porn is a symptom not the cause.
Well we're all guilty of making poor decisions at some point irrespective of how well educated we may be but that does not give anyone the right to exploit us.
I take your point about young people (it's not just women) wanting fame and there are those who will take that desire and use it for their own ends. You only have to look at X Factor, never mind the porn industry, but the reason expoitation occurs is because there is a demand.As for getting on a band wagon I have no intention of doing so. I simply posted the clip for people to discuss.
LV
LV point taken and understood. Very thought provoking. However I personally found the death of 23 Chinese cockle pickers in Morecambe Bay far more exploitive. they were being paid £5 per 25kg bag. Don't know how many people have picked cockles. As a child a kiddies sand castle bucket would take an hour. Sorry who's on the band wagon now.
I have very strong opinions on the porn industry.
Some of it like the love making porn (I believe they call it) is fine in my eyes. But what I can't get my head around and never will is the type of porn where a woman is being tied up, beaten up and what would insinuate is acting out a rape scene.
Yeah people can say that these women consent. But isn't that just so black and white? Is this type of porn or even seeing this in films actually ethically correct? I for one couldn't sit there and feel comfortable watching something like that.
What makes me wonder is do these women who "consent" to these types of films really know what they are getting into? I'm sure all of us at some point in our lives have happily signed up for something but then found it's not all what's it's played out to be?
Take away the fact that this woman is paid or is even an actress and what you're then left with is a woman being degraded and humiliated. My main concern is that this type of porn is going to have a negative affect on future generations who may see it is ok for women to be treated in this way.
I've also seen these sections regarding acting rape scenes etc on Fetlife and I do find it concerning that this sort of thing really gets allowed to carry on when this very country is trying to show how damaging and what effects rape can have on a persons life.
Mr Gooner wrote:
I have very strong opinions on the porn industry.
Some of it like the love making porn (I believe they call it) is fine in my eyes. But what I can't get my head around and never will is the type of porn where a woman is being tied up, beaten up and what would insinuate is acting out a rape scene.
Yeah people can say that these women consent. But isn't that just so black and white? Is this type of porn or even seeing this in films actually ethically correct? I for one couldn't sit there and feel comfortable watching something like that.
What makes me wonder is do these women who "consent" to these types of films really know what they are getting into? I'm sure all of us at some point in our lives have happily signed up for something but then found it's not all what's it's played out to be?
Take away the fact that this woman is paid or is even an actress and what you're then left with is a woman being degraded and humiliated. My main concern is that this type of porn is going to have a negative affect on future generations who may see it is ok for women to be treated in this way.
I've also seen these sections regarding acting rape scenes etc on Fetlife and I do find it concerning that this sort of thing really gets allowed to carry on when this very country is trying to show how damaging and what effects rape can have on a persons life.
I agree with you on most of this, but there was one thing I wanted to pick up on that I disagree with....
I am not aware of the groups you are speaking of, but in my view, people acting out a rape fantasy are not perpetuating or encouraging rape anymore than men going paintballing are perpetuating murder shootings, or a person who enjoys spanking their partner is wanting to go out and hit people in the street.
Consent is the defining factor. Context too. Having a rape fantasy is actually somewhat common and the difference is that if the couple do decide to act it out, there is consent, chat before hand (I'd hope) a safeword etc and agreement on both sides that this is a consentual fantasy, a roleplay to be acted out between lovers. This is polar opposite from real rape, which is not consentual, illegal and disgusting and i can safely say that most people who have a rape fantasy do not in any way condone real rape.
I speak from some experience, not only having a somwhat similar fantasy for a time, but also knowing a few other women who do. I can tell you straight up that the fantasy and the reality are polar opposites and it is NOT a case of wanting to actually be raped for real, or even thinking that "rape is hot" GOD no! When people fantasise about this, is is with someone they trust with their life and the fantasy is about being dominated or "taken control of" as an extension maybe of rougher sex or getting spanked. Its feeling the strength and power of your lover, his lust that overtakes you. Its extreme submission. Throughout, it is consentual.
Most people would have the common sense to understand this HUGE distinction and not think "Oh, well some women want it" but its also fair to say "most people" know that real rape is an illegal and disgusting act and wouldn't DREAM of doing it. The people who do are probably not the kind of people who could be persuaded based on the "consent-non consent distinction anyway.
Of course, there are so many paths off this discussion, because the consent/non consent lines can become murky, for various reasons and a person being pimped into prositution or porn, either against their will or doing it because they feel they have no choice, trapped in an industry...well yeah, murky lines and lots to think about.
Gentle giant wrote:
Lord_Vetinari wrote:
Thought provoking video (not graphic just an interview with 2 ex porn actresses):
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=jRZZAuPyG7I
LV
Ok I watched the vid. Where are trying to go with this. Every where you look there is exploitation. Personally I don't think either of these two ladies help put this argument across well at all. The one one on the left says it's all so wrong and bad yet still makes herself look like a porn star, why?. All I here is constant moaning and whinging not a very constructed argument.
The main issue I have is poor decision making and lack of education. There is no way in modern western society that you cannot find all this out before you go into the porn industry. Instead of using the web for things like face book and playing games. Use it for the supreme education tool it can be. As a child I can remember my parents buying me a 3rd hand set of the Britannica encyclopeadi for my education. Now you don't even have to know how to spell a question to get an answer in seconds.
Secondly there is no substitute for hard work. I believe that a (LOT) of young women are naive enough to think that they all can become celebrities, wags or models. They just want easy money. Why would you think any different. 5 years of hard slog at university or easy money for having sex in front of a camera? Why would you want to stand on a production line in a factory for minimum wage instead. Personal morality maybe? I am sorry but it's poor life choices. Before you all get on the so wrong band wagon, granted there will be some orphans and abused women but porn is a symptom not the cause.
I had to read this through three times and I still haven't a clue what you're talking about or what your point actually is. You've said that their argument isn't well constructed but what you've written makes barely any sense.
Are you seriously saying that because someone looks a certain way that they can't be against something? Do you honestly think that people are incapable of regretting their life decisions after they've made them, do you really think it's useful to chastise people and shame them after they've said that they regret making said life decisions, often made through desperation, and that they've been through a hard time? That we should only bother with caring about certain kinds of exploitation?
Your dim view of 'a (LOT) of young women' is actually quite worrying and you appear to have turned this into some weird rant about celebrity culture, which doesn't really apply to the porn industry in the same sense that it does to 'wags and models'. Also - not everyone has the resources or opportunities needed to attend five years of University.
Fluffbags wrote:
Mr Gooner wrote:
I have very strong opinions on the porn industry.
Some of it like the love making porn (I believe they call it) is fine in my eyes. But what I can't get my head around and never will is the type of porn where a woman is being tied up, beaten up and what would insinuate is acting out a rape scene.
Yeah people can say that these women consent. But isn't that just so black and white? Is this type of porn or even seeing this in films actually ethically correct? I for one couldn't sit there and feel comfortable watching something like that.
What makes me wonder is do these women who "consent" to these types of films really know what they are getting into? I'm sure all of us at some point in our lives have happily signed up for something but then found it's not all what's it's played out to be?
Take away the fact that this woman is paid or is even an actress and what you're then left with is a woman being degraded and humiliated. My main concern is that this type of porn is going to have a negative affect on future generations who may see it is ok for women to be treated in this way.
I've also seen these sections regarding acting rape scenes etc on Fetlife and I do find it concerning that this sort of thing really gets allowed to carry on when this very country is trying to show how damaging and what effects rape can have on a persons life.
I agree with you on most of this, but there was one thing I wanted to pick up on that I disagree with....
I am not aware of the groups you are speaking of, but in my view, people acting out a rape fantasy are not perpetuating or encouraging rape anymore than men going paintballing are perpetuating murder shootings, or a person who enjoys spanking their partner is wanting to go out and hit people in the street.
Consent is the defining factor. Context too. Having a rape fantasy is actually somewhat common and the difference is that if the couple do decide to act it out, there is consent, chat before hand (I'd hope) a safeword etc and agreement on both sides that this is a consentual fantasy, a roleplay to be acted out between lovers. This is polar opposite from real rape, which is not consentual, illegal and disgusting and i can safely say that most people who have a rape fantasy do not in any way condone real rape.
I speak from some experience, not only having a somwhat similar fantasy for a time, but also knowing a few other women who do. I can tell you straight up that the fantasy and the reality are polar opposites and it is NOT a case of wanting to actually be raped for real, or even thinking that "rape is hot" GOD no! When people fantasise about this, is is with someone they trust with their life and the fantasy is about being dominated or "taken control of" as an extension maybe of rougher sex or getting spanked. Its feeling the strength and power of your lover, his lust that overtakes you. Its extreme submission. Throughout, it is consentual.
Most people would have the common sense to understand this HUGE distinction and not think "Oh, well some women want it" but its also fair to say "most people" know that real rape is an illegal and disgusting act and wouldn't DREAM of doing it. The people who do are probably not the kind of people who could be persuaded based on the "consent-non consent distinction anyway.
Of course, there are so many paths off this discussion, because the consent/non consent lines can become murky, for various reasons and a person being pimped into prositution or porn, either against their will or doing it because they feel they have no choice, trapped in an industry...well yeah, murky lines and lots to think about.
I feel you're talking more about a couple who are acting out theses scenes have probably share many a experience with each other and more then likely know what each other's limits are.
I'm talking more in the sense of a few woman who I actually saw posting in a certain section about how they would like X, Y and Z done to them. And what follows are comments by people who have no actual affiliation with this person and saying stuff like "I would love to get my hands round that neck of yours and leave you within an inch of your life" Too me I find it quite disturbing that this sort of thing can go on. If I said that in the pub, I would be getting arrested by the rozzers.
Just seems too me that on that particular site there is a severe lack of vetting of any sort where by any sort of predator can prey on the more inexperienced and quite frankly more vulnerable person. Fetlife know they monopolise the whole BDSM community yet seem to turn a blind eye. But then again I see who the owner is and can see why,
Just to add to this thread, there is a brilliant book written by Jenna Jameson (and Neil Strauss) called "How to make love like a porn star: A cautionary tale".
Mr Gooner wrote:
Fluffbags wrote:
Mr Gooner wrote:
I have very strong opinions on the porn industry.
Some of it like the love making porn (I believe they call it) is fine in my eyes. But what I can't get my head around and never will is the type of porn where a woman is being tied up, beaten up and what would insinuate is acting out a rape scene.
Yeah people can say that these women consent. But isn't that just so black and white? Is this type of porn or even seeing this in films actually ethically correct? I for one couldn't sit there and feel comfortable watching something like that.
What makes me wonder is do these women who "consent" to these types of films really know what they are getting into? I'm sure all of us at some point in our lives have happily signed up for something but then found it's not all what's it's played out to be?
Take away the fact that this woman is paid or is even an actress and what you're then left with is a woman being degraded and humiliated. My main concern is that this type of porn is going to have a negative affect on future generations who may see it is ok for women to be treated in this way.
I've also seen these sections regarding acting rape scenes etc on Fetlife and I do find it concerning that this sort of thing really gets allowed to carry on when this very country is trying to show how damaging and what effects rape can have on a persons life.
I agree with you on most of this, but there was one thing I wanted to pick up on that I disagree with....
I am not aware of the groups you are speaking of, but in my view, people acting out a rape fantasy are not perpetuating or encouraging rape anymore than men going paintballing are perpetuating murder shootings, or a person who enjoys spanking their partner is wanting to go out and hit people in the street.
Consent is the defining factor. Context too. Having a rape fantasy is actually somewhat common and the difference is that if the couple do decide to act it out, there is consent, chat before hand (I'd hope) a safeword etc and agreement on both sides that this is a consentual fantasy, a roleplay to be acted out between lovers. This is polar opposite from real rape, which is not consentual, illegal and disgusting and i can safely say that most people who have a rape fantasy do not in any way condone real rape.
I speak from some experience, not only having a somwhat similar fantasy for a time, but also knowing a few other women who do. I can tell you straight up that the fantasy and the reality are polar opposites and it is NOT a case of wanting to actually be raped for real, or even thinking that "rape is hot" GOD no! When people fantasise about this, is is with someone they trust with their life and the fantasy is about being dominated or "taken control of" as an extension maybe of rougher sex or getting spanked. Its feeling the strength and power of your lover, his lust that overtakes you. Its extreme submission. Throughout, it is consentual.
Most people would have the common sense to understand this HUGE distinction and not think "Oh, well some women want it" but its also fair to say "most people" know that real rape is an illegal and disgusting act and wouldn't DREAM of doing it. The people who do are probably not the kind of people who could be persuaded based on the "consent-non consent distinction anyway.
Of course, there are so many paths off this discussion, because the consent/non consent lines can become murky, for various reasons and a person being pimped into prositution or porn, either against their will or doing it because they feel they have no choice, trapped in an industry...well yeah, murky lines and lots to think about.
I feel you're talking more about a couple who are acting out theses scenes have probably share many a experience with each other and more then likely know what each other's limits are.
I'm talking more in the sense of a few woman who I actually saw posting in a certain section about how they would like X, Y and Z done to them. And what follows are comments by people who have no actual affiliation with this person and saying stuff like "I would love to get my hands round that neck of yours and leave you within an inch of your life" Too me I find it quite disturbing that this sort of thing can go on. If I said that in the pub, I would be getting arrested by the rozzers.
Just seems too me that on that particular site there is a severe lack of vetting of any sort where by any sort of predator can prey on the more inexperienced and quite frankly more vulnerable person. Fetlife know they monopolise the whole BDSM community yet seem to turn a blind eye. But then again I see who the owner is and can see why,
Ohhhh! Okay, I understand why you felt edgy now. :S I would feel pretty edgy about seeing that too. As I mentioned...the context is important and that sounds a little scary! :S
Worth a watch...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wSF82AwSDiU
Mr Gooner wrote:
I have very strong opinions on the porn industry.
Some of it like the love making porn (I believe they call it) is fine in my eyes. But what I can't get my head around and never will is the type of porn where a woman is being tied up, beaten up and what would insinuate is acting out a rape scene.
Yeah people can say that these women consent. But isn't that just so black and white? Is this type of porn or even seeing this in films actually ethically correct? I for one couldn't sit there and feel comfortable watching something like that.
What makes me wonder is do these women who "consent" to these types of films really know what they are getting into? I'm sure all of us at some point in our lives have happily signed up for something but then found it's not all what's it's played out to be?
Take away the fact that this woman is paid or is even an actress and what you're then left with is a woman being degraded and humiliated. My main concern is that this type of porn is going to have a negative affect on future generations who may see it is ok for women to be treated in this way.
I've also seen these sections regarding acting rape scenes etc on Fetlife and I do find it concerning that this sort of thing really gets allowed to carry on when this very country is trying to show how damaging and what effects rape can have on a persons life.
when I read this the first thing that came into my head was a porn video me and my boyfriend found, I can't even remember how we found it I assume we were just looking at gruesome videos, well anyway.. in the video the girl was tied up and then had several metal sticks poked right through her nipples and they were bleeding, and I remember saying to my boyfriend "why would you agree to do something like that? I was horrified by what I saw, but I guess i'll never know what made her agree to it
Scary stuff! cant get my head around how or why people would do things like that or what kind of creature could inflict that sort of damage on someone even less get some kind of kick or enjoyment out of it. Thats horrific abuse and the knowledge that even worse goes on in the name of sexual gratification makes my blood run cold. Disturbed now, wish i hadn't read this post 
Think i'll go and give my missis a cuddle now.
Interesting comparing the death rate of porn stars but, you can do the same with wrestlers
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lahqLWssVf4
and bodybuilders
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ew2Xh4gPots
It's no better an argument than it is to get wrestling and bodybuilding banned. All examples involve extreme lifestyles and the thing missing in all videos is sample size.