Unreasonable neighbours (sorry, it's a bit long!)

Hey all,

I was just about to pop over to Reddit with this scenario but y’all are so lovely and reasonable here that I thought I would post here and ask for your counsel.

So it goes, we live in a one-bedroom flat (downstairs) in a semi-detached house conversion. We get along well with the young man upstairs who says he never hears us, apart from when our dog barks, or when we pull the light cord in the bathroom :joy:. We don’t argue loudly, play loud music, bang around late at night etc. The dog even puts himself to bed at 9PM - it’s quite cute, really!

Back in January, at 3AM, I was disturbed from my sleep by a knock on, I believed, the bedroom window. I looked, but there was nobody out there. I messaged upstairs (as I say, we’re friendly) and he said it wasn’t him. I thought it odd but managed eventually to get back to sleep.

Last month, at about 12:30 AM on a Monday morning, our neighbour from next door comes knocking on the front door to ask us to “turn it down”. We weren’t being or doing anything loud, just watching a bit of TV before bed. We were surprised by it but we’re reasonable people, so we turned our TV down. We also created a routine on Alexa so she adjusts the TV volume for us automatically at 9PM from now on.

A few days ago, the lady from next door went and harassed upstairs. He wasn’t so reasonable with her and told her to put carpet down - that it was her problem, not his problem. He claims that they don’t have any carpet down but I don’t know if that’s true. I’ve never been in next door to know, and he does have a history for telling porkies.

Last night we had upstairs in our flat to talk about the situation, because ultimately, we don’t want a problem turning into a crisis. We showed him how loud we normally have our TV after 9PM and he agreed that it wasn’t unreasonably loud, and that there was no bass in it. We also run a sound test to test the level of sound in the room - 65 decibels, normal talking volume. I went to bed at about 1AM, my husband ran the dishwasher and then came to bed as well. 5-10 minutes after he got into bed, there was another knock on the partition wall. I ran another sound level test on the dishwasher this morning in a silent room and it averaged 46 decibels. We are not, not running the dishwasher at night - it is more economical to do so.

A brick wall without a cavity, which our partition wall is, reduces sound by about 40-45 decibels. That means that the most excess noise our household produces after 9PM is about 25 decibels - a typical whisper. According to the UK Gov’t website, the permissible level of noise where the underlying noise does not exceed 24 decibels (a typical quiet room) is 34 decibels. We are not reaching standards - intentionally or regularly - which would be considered “unreasonable”.

They’re making me miserable and impacting my work too - tonight is supposed to be kink night but I’m worried about making any noise. I’m also seriously impeded on my own work when I’m having to take time out to write letters and seek advice, meanwhile, the chap from next door trundles off to work in his BMW :roll_eyes:

The chap is apparently afraid to speak with upstairs, and his girlfriend is apparently afraid to speak with me. Instead of speaking to us and treating us like normal people though, they’d rather take the anti-social route of banging on the wall over every little thing they hear.

I have partially drafted a letter to the council, who are the landlord for both ourselves and themselves. I’m also wondering about contacting the police, whether there is potential to argue a case of harrassment? I’d welcome your thoughts. Sorry this post is so long, I just felt it was important to cover the facts :slight_smile:

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Living with neighbours can be tricky especially regarding noise levels. It’s basically give and take/live and let live with reasonable people.
If you are convinced the neighbour is being unreasonable you could make a list of all the times they’ve banged the wall for no reason and a note of the decibel level of any device you’re using.
The thing is, different people have different levels of tolerance to noise.

My ex-neighbour taught music from home, so we often had piano or trumpets being played badly!
She apologised and said if it bothered us to tell her. I just said as long as you don’t complain about my music being played loud (via a powerful surround sound set-up) then i won’t complain about your noise. I never played it loud after 8pm after her kids were in bed.
It worked for us.
It’s all about compromise, so if your neighbour won’t, i would definitely take it further or look at moving.

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Exactly it. Upstairs is a builder/carpenter so we’re used to him running saws and machines in the shared garden most days. The trade-off is he puts up with the dog barking occasionally and a bit of music when we’re cleaning (not loud, but loud enough); I’m also not allowed to buy wood or pay a handyman because he’ll do most small jobs for me for the price of a cup of tea. I’m sure if they actually lived in their home they would make noise too. Noise is life, life makes noise.

Moving unfortunately isn’t an option, and nor do I really want it to be. We have a nice home and a nice neighbourhood, apart from this one.

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Hmm… i don’t really have any solutions?

But maybe a couple of thought startes…

  • is there a neighbour on their other side and have you had a chance to speak to them? They could be walking a similar journey.
  • often the what is covering the why. For example, I’ve seen situations where a couple is trying to settle a baby to sleep during the day. The extra noise is making the job difficult. The frustration is labelled at the extra noise… but not at the baby who won’t sleep. It’s much easier to blame the ongoing factors. Maybe someone is struggling with an thought and issue and can’t sleep at night. Any added noise is the small issues on top of an incredible stress filled life.
    How do we help people find the answers to why, not to what I knew.
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There is a neighbour above, not sure what their experiences are, or whether they may even be responsible (I have seen beer bottles and Pot Noodle pots on the windowsill :face_vomiting:). It wouldn’t be the first time I’ve heard of the wrong neighbour being accused of being the bad neighbour.

The why? I’m not sure. I don’t think they have a kid; I’ve never heard and they’ve never mentioned one. As far as I can tell he works, which I can understand, hubby and I work (WFH) as well. Be that as it may though, not everyone lives the same life, and it’s not right to impose your life on others. If people go to bed at 2AM and get up for work at 7AM and are tired as a result (not me personally, I’m old and usually in bed by 12 on a school night :joy:), that’s their problem, not yours. Unless, obviously, they’re being excessively noisy.

You’re a star, thankyou.

You’re right, we shouldn’t have to soundproof our home for someone else’s convenience (not to mention that would be akin to letting the bullies win). We used to live next door to a true neighbour from hell - drunken parties and loud music most nights, police called probably once a week, arguing and fighting, bonfires near the building, sexual harrassment and threats to kill (against me). She once accused me of beating another neighbour’s dog (it [off leash] was trying to attack my dog [on a leash] for a second time and I blocked it and got myself bitten instead). In her drink and drug addled brain she was also convinced that I was sleeping with her 50+ boyfriend (nice enough guy, but not my type :joy:) and started calling me a f**king fat cow" and a “skanky wife” while we were relaxing in the communal garden on our one year wedding anniversary. Oh, and that’s not even including the time her son - who had not long got out of clink for armed robbery - got blind drunk, entered my home and sexually assaulted me while my husband was on a leaving do. We fought tooth and nail, but we are now gladly out of that hellhole now. She was also known to my brother and apparently damaged her previous home so badly, the landlord wrote it off as collateral damage.

But yeah, if they want to know what a true nightmare neighbour feels like then I will gladly put them in touch :joy:

You’re right about not imposing your lifestyle on others.
I work very unsociable hours and am usually in bed around 8pm on a worknight.
So this time of year it’s light when i go up, and often the 9-5 workers are mowing their lawns or jetwashing their cars at that time, but i just have to accept that and sleep! Fortunately I have slept through earthquakes!

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I can relate - once I’m gone, I’m dead to the world. I can remember an earthquake we had (2009ish), everyone was talking about it as I was just like “what earthquake?”.

Hubby and I work normal hours but he is a bit of a night owl. He knows i don’t mind it as long as he’s not crashing around because our living room is adjoined to the bedroom, and he never does. If he’s not disturbing me, I don’t see how he’s disturbing anyone else.

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You’ve definitely gone above and beyond on research and the science behind it all from sounds of it and I’d say just get on with your normal and ignore them, if it becomes a constant thing of them banging on the wall then either call the police as it might be classed as domestic disturbance or pop round there to tell them to keep the noise down haha :sweat_smile:

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I laughed so hard I can barely breathe! I have wondered seriously about going the police route though, even just for advice rather than to make a formal complaint.

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I had a similar thing years back and although the police couldn’t take action as such to enforce anything they was very kind to just go round the neighbours to talk with them about the situation and that is usually enough to sort it out seeing the po po on your doorstep!

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We used to have issues with kids a few doors away throwing things over the fences and into our garden (they once sent over a glass pudding pot which I just washed up and used as a vase on the dining table :rofl:) and I spoke to the police about that. I was n very good terms with our old beat sargeant so he popped around and had a word. It’s been quiet ever since :joy:

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I feel your pain, living in flats is give and take, What I would do is talk to your council the health and environment side. Hopefully they will be better than my local council dealing with noise issues.

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I think some are better than others. Bristol City Council has an annoying habit of rotating caseworkers so you’re pretty much guaranteed a new one before you get too far with any resolution.

Living cheek by jowel like that is a lot of give and take but you sound fairly reasonable on the whole.

However I’d say that running your dishwasher at 1am is probably unnecessary. It may not be loud but the rhythmic humming sounds of it running can travel through buildings easily and may be really upsetting to the neighbour. DItto the TV incident that you spoke of… 12:30 am? Okay I like a late night film sometimes too but almost 1am… I’d be pretty unhappy if I could hear your telly at that hour too, even is it was technically of a volume considered ‘reasonable’.

Personally I don’t think it’s unreasonable between (say) 10pm and 5-6am to expect virtual silence.
Turn the tv down further post 10pm, improve your sound deadening or invest in some bluetooth earphones.
Running a dishwasher at 1am in a block of flats it just plain unreasonable in my book. Absolutely no need whatsoever. Presumably you ate in the evening, why not just run it then?

Our kitchen is an extension build on the back of the property and on the far side from the neighbours, I’d be very surprised if the noise was reaching them from there if I can’t hear it in the lounge with the door closed as the lounge is the joining room. I did speak to hubby about it however but he said it’s what he always does (the kitchen is his cleaning domain) so I feel like I’ve lost that argument. I’ve tried to be reasonable.

@GoGirl12 late night gaming I can understand, I’ve spoken to hubby a few times about that one too. He never puts the sound up but he still reacts. I think these men forget themselves when they game :joy:

Hubby does stay up later than me admittedly, he always has done. He didn’t realise it was as loud as what the neighbour claimed it was (we’ve never had an issue before) and as I said he turned it down. It hasn’t been an issue since but they’re still knocking and we don’t know if it’s because of us or the guy above us, who they also seem to take issue with. They won’t talk, just knock, which doesn’t help.

I’m really sorry to hear it is creating extra stress in your life. It sounds as though tou are trying your best to underthe situation and be as accommodating as possible.

We’ve all worked with people that, no matter how reasonable you are, we never live up to other people expectations.

I’ve always found the hardest thing, is not trying to be more accommodating, but rather accepting the fact that I am being accommodating. I am acting like a reasonable person and I can’t change how others feel. People will feel annoyed and that’s ok. We can’t change how people feel.
In saying that, if they are on your property, tapping at your window… trespass or stalking laws may be an option.

Is the complaining neighbour mentally sound? I know of an elderly lady who was harassed by her elderly neighbours for making noise in the early hours, even getting the police involved.
It really made her ill with the stress and worry. Turned out the elderly neighbour couple both had dementia and were imaging the noise.

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Interesting question, and it’s hard for me to say. He’s a younger guy with a girlfriend and we do often get smells of pot from their property (that might actually be something to raise as a “put up and shut up”) but is he menfally sound? I don’t know. Certainly when he knocked on our door he was pleasant enough, pretty blunt, but then I suppose you would be if your neighbours are disturbing your sleep. I know cannabis can cause mental health issues as well, but whether it’s causing him issues? I’m afraid I’m not a clinician.

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