We've had the "what is cheating?" threads a lot on here, but this is more particular. Something a little more pertinent to our little group, being, as we are, on the internet. Feel free to point me in the direction of any replicated threads, I won't cry () . I won't be surprised if the thread gets deleted, either.
What is acceptable on the internet? Chatting with another person? Privately? Flirting? On the forum or off the forum? Do you keep things a secret? Most importantly, is it "not real" because it is online? We are all real people, but is there something once removed about us when we are online, projecting a persona? Is an infidelity not an infidelity when it's on the internet?
SO tell me, OA, is it acceptable to send another man a naked picture of your breasts? Or to tell him that you would like him to bend you over the ironing board? Is it acceptable to have virtual sex with a woman on MSN while your wife is ill in bed? Would you think that this means nothing because it is "not real"? Would a married man with two children asleep in bed upstairs be justified in sending pictures to a woman of his naked chest?
I think chatting is fine... depending on the topic of conversation of course!
I dont think i like the idea of chatting privately!! and i wouldnt send pictures of myself naked to anyone... wether your in front of a screen of face to face cheating is cheating!!! I dont think i would like my husband to do it and to think it was ok?! I always try and be me, online or right in front of someone! x
I don't wish to get too embroiled in something that is obviously a personal matter but I think it's perhaps important to also consider how you found something out, if a partner tells you then I think it's an admission of a mistake and a desire to rectify it. Is it a breach of trust if it oversteps boundaries you are both aware of existing? Certainly. Does it require a rebuilding of trust with time, probably. Is there room for building upon that honesty from the initial dishonesty? I'd usually say so. I hope all goes well.
I don't wish to get too embroiled in something that is obviously a personal matter but I think it's perhaps important to also consider how you found something out, if a partner tells you then I think it's an admission of a mistake and a desire to rectify it. Is it a breach of trust if it oversteps boundaries you are both aware of existing? Certainly. Does it require a rebuilding of trust with time, probably. Is there room for building upon that honesty from the initial dishonesty? I'd usually say so. I hope all goes well.
Do you think its possible to rebuild trust and find yourself completly trusting in someone again? xxx
I don't wish to get too embroiled in something that is obviously a personal matter but I think it's perhaps important to also consider how you found something out, if a partner tells you then I think it's an admission of a mistake and a desire to rectify it. Is it a breach of trust if it oversteps boundaries you are both aware of existing? Certainly. Does it require a rebuilding of trust with time, probably. Is there room for building upon that honesty from the initial dishonesty? I'd usually say so. I hope all goes well.
Do you think its possible to rebuild trust and find yourself completly trusting in someone again? xxx
Depending on the situation. People have character flaws, I think I'd prefer someone to be headstrong rather than dishonest. In my opinion honesty is one of the most important traits so at least there is some honesty displayed that can be built upon. If someone is willing to work to make themselves a 'better person' then I feel they deserve a chance.
I don't wish to get too embroiled in something that is obviously a personal matter but I think it's perhaps important to also consider how you found something out, if a partner tells you then I think it's an admission of a mistake and a desire to rectify it. Is it a breach of trust if it oversteps boundaries you are both aware of existing? Certainly. Does it require a rebuilding of trust with time, probably. Is there room for building upon that honesty from the initial dishonesty? I'd usually say so. I hope all goes well.
Do you think its possible to rebuild trust and find yourself completly trusting in someone again? xxx
Depending on the situation. People have character flaws, I think I'd prefer someone to be headstrong rather than dishonest. In my opinion honesty is one of the most important traits so at least there is some honesty displayed that can be built upon. If someone is willing to work to make themselves a 'better person' then I feel they deserve a chance.
That makes alot of sense.. i wondered because people say things like if theres no trust theres no relationship etc, I hae never cosidered that it would depend on the person. I guess it wouldnt be the end for everyone. thankyou
Yes, clearly these are not the ramblings of a calm and sane woman. Yes honesty is important but there was no confession, imagine more painful dragging of the truth from someone's mouth stemming from a chance viewing of something hidden. And lies, more lies.
The boundaries are important I think. You are right.
I hate to air dirty laundry here, it's not appropriate really, I would scoff at someone else doing the same thing. And yet, at the same time, could not help myself oddly. As I suppose this is where is all started.
That makes alot of sense.. i wondered because people say things like if theres no trust theres no relationship etc, I hae never cosidered that it would depend on the person. I guess it wouldnt be the end for everyone. thankyou
I agree with 'the people'. If there is no trust then I don't think there is anything there, however if someone has admitted something then there is some form of trust to build on.
I guess so!! its nice to no its not a lost cause, i think people often make mistakes , and its nice when someone recognises that afct and maybe comes clean as a chance to make things better, otherwise why worry about something that didnt happen. if someone has seen something on a chance viewing, like telemachus said, then really there shouldnt be anything to worry about, ie boundaries... If you didnt 'cross' them why worry x
Yes, clearly these are not the ramblings of a calm and sane woman. Yes honesty is important but there was no confession, imagine more painful dragging of the truth from someone's mouth stemming from a chance viewing of something hidden. And lies, more lies.
The boundaries are important I think. You are right.
I hate to air dirty laundry here, it's not appropriate really, I would scoff at someone else doing the same thing. And yet, at the same time, could not help myself oddly. As I suppose this is where is all started.
Ah. I hope there is more honesty there than you imply. I know he can remarkably honest and open, he is one of two people who have directly told me their name, this type of honesty can inevitably backfire at times.
I certainly do not envy your situation Tm, I hope you both reach some satisfactory conclusion and if either of you need a little chat feel free to.
Emotions make us do things we wouldn't otherwise do, you might not consider it appropriate but perhaps it can help develop in to something positive between both of you as a communication tool, I'm sure he can read the responses assuming it doesn't get closed down.
Yes, clearly these are not the ramblings of a calm and sane woman. Yes honesty is important but there was no confession, imagine more painful dragging of the truth from someone's mouth stemming from a chance viewing of something hidden. And lies, more lies.
The boundaries are important I think. You are right.
I hate to air dirty laundry here, it's not appropriate really, I would scoff at someone else doing the same thing. And yet, at the same time, could not help myself oddly. As I suppose this is where is all started.
Ah. I hope there is more honesty there than you imply. I know he can remarkably honest and open, he is one of two people who have directly told me their name, this type of honesty can inevitably backfire at times.
I certainly do not envy your situation Tm, I hope you both reach some satisfactory conclusion and if either of you need a little chat feel free to.
Emotions make us do things we wouldn't otherwise do, you might not consider it appropriate but perhaps it can help develop in to something positive between both of you as a communication tool, I'm sure he can read the responses assuming it doesn't get closed down.
I think it is a mistake in general to give too much of yourself online. Names, faces, information are too far for me. I think it's silly to give that information away as you never know what will happen. Plus, it's not necessary. You can exist online perfectly well without giving that information away.
I also, do not envy my situation.
I think that boundaries can be a tricky thing on the internet, yet they are something about which I have always been very clear. Light flirting on non sexual topics, acceptable, full on virtual sex, not acceptable.
It's clear this is an emotionally charged topic so you'll forgive me for being as diplomatic as possible. Whilst I can only imagine how furious you are (and I would argue you have the right to be), I do think it's important to take time to be as calm as is possible before any decisions are made. You both need the chance to speak to one another.
As for the actual question - I have to agree with WandA - boundaries are vital. Some may find it clinical, but when me and WandA first got together we discussed what we classed as cheating, and made "rules" at that time. Flirting is ok for us, but no cyber sex in included as one of the rules. Being both aware of that, if one of us "slipped up" they'd have no excuse. Having said that, people *do* make mistakes, and because I know what WandA is like, in certain situations I would forgive him with a lot of work first. That's because I know he's a caring and honest person and it would be a genuinine mistake for him. It really is specific to each relationship. I would hope that these qualities are relative to your own relationship too.
As WandA has said, I do not envy you're situation and whilst I'm sure you won't appreciate them, my sympathies are there. I do hope you can come to a satisfactory conclusion and you know how to find me if you need a chat - I guess stemming from a sex toy forum might make it difficult to discuss with "real" friends and family so I'll offer my ear if it would help at all.
It's such a shame this has stemmed from such a wonderful forum and I do hope you can still find some enjoyment here as you are a valued member of this community.
It's clear this is an emotionally charged topic so you'll forgive me for being as diplomatic as possible. Whilst I can only imagine how furious you are (and I would argue you have the right to be), I do think it's important to take time to be as calm as is possible before any decisions are made. You both need the chance to speak to one another.
As for the actual question - I have to agree with WandA - boundaries are vital. Some may find it clinical, but when me and WandA first got together we discussed what we classed as cheating, and made "rules" at that time. Flirting is ok for us, but no cyber sex in included as one of the rules. Being both aware of that, if one of us "slipped up" they'd have no excuse. Having said that, people *do* make mistakes, and because I know what WandA is like, in certain situations I would forgive him with a lot of work first. That's because I know he's a caring and honest person and it would be a genuinine mistake for him. It really is specific to each relationship. I would hope that these qualities are relative to your own relationship too.
As WandA has said, I do not envy you're situation and whilst I'm sure you won't appreciate them, my sympathies are there. I do hope you can come to a satisfactory conclusion and you know how to find me if you need a chat - I guess stemming from a sex toy forum might make it difficult to discuss with "real" friends and family so I'll offer my ear if it would help at all.
It's such a shame this has stemmed from such a wonderful forum and I do hope you can still find some enjoyment here as you are a valued member of this community.
Best wishes,
Alicia x
Thank you. I appreciate your frankness and find nothing that rubs me up the wrong way in your post External Media
I hate the public nature of this, however I try to remind myself that were I the only one of us here, I would be discussing it freely and I would hope he will not return.
I'm not ready for real life discussion. My boundaries were always very clear. He maintains he has done no wrong and I'm not even sure that I have the whole truth.
I think it is a mistake in general to give too much of yourself online. Names, faces, information are too far for me. I think it's silly to give that information away as you never know what will happen. Plus, it's not necessary. You can exist online perfectly well without giving that information away.
I also, do not envy my situation.
I think that boundaries can be a tricky thing on the internet, yet they are something about which I have always been very clear. Light flirting on non sexual topics, acceptable, full on virtual sex, not acceptable.
I too am very careful with my information, I don't feel it's necessary in most cases. As I mentioned, if you feel like a chat then feel free to, you may find talking to one of 'those bastards' i.e. a man useful. Ad put most of what I meant to say much better.
If there's been a breach then I guess you need a solution, both of you can try to stifle that side of his character or manage it. I hope both of you make the right decision Tm.
I think it depends on the type of relationship you have. My relationship with my fella has changed and grown so much since we met. A year ago I would have responded to this thread very differently. I would have said absolutley its unacceptable its still cheating even though its 'not real'.
However, now we have the kind of relationship where if we both know what the other is doing, its perfectly ok. Its when things are done secretly - then I would be upset. If he wants to send pics, fine, i'll even take them for him, as long as its something we're doing as a couple. xx
See, that's the important part: if you're open and up front about it, then there's no harm (and if one party thinks it's totally unreasonable they have the chance to say so before anything happens), but if you hide it and make out that it's something shameful, then that's exactly what it becomes.
I don't buy the "it's the internet, it's not real" thing, because I met someone on-line, got to know him via silly flirty chat, played a bit on cam, and suddenly we found we were looking to make it something more (that's kinda halted for a whole mess of reasons, but we still chat a bit and when things settle it's not completely off the cards). So it is possible for 'meaningless play' on the internet to become something real, just as a 'meaningless one night stand' in person can develop into a full-blown affair.
I can see why it seems acceptable on one hand, since really it's not all that different from porn: he's looking at a strange woman, getting off on what she says and does, but never actually touching her. Even the interaction part could be linked to a sex line, which is usually seen as more acceptable.
Main difference is in the repetition with the same partner. If it were a one-off, I think I'd be ok with it (well, not ok, but certainly not livid: just enough to let him know I didn't approve so he could not do it again, or at least include me if he was going to in future). If it was a regular thing, then that seems a fair step closer to 'cheating' than 'interactive porn'. Especially with the hiding it thing: once, you might get away with "I didn't think about it", or "I wasn't planning on it, would have said before if I had been", but multuiple times, well, you had plenty of chance to say something or ask and actively chose not to. And that's the biggest issue.
Main difference is in the repetition with the same partner. If it were a one-off, I think I'd be ok with it (well, not ok, but certainly not livid: just enough to let him know I didn't approve so he could not do it again, or at least include me if he was going to in future). If it was a regular thing, then that seems a fair step closer to 'cheating' than 'interactive porn'. Especially with the hiding it thing: once, you might get away with "I didn't think about it", or "I wasn't planning on it, would have said before if I had been", but multuiple times, well, you had plenty of chance to say something or ask and actively chose not to. And that's the biggest issue.
Think you've hit the nail on the head here for most people. xx
I really do hope you both find a satisfactory conclusion Tele - I can see how you're not ready to discuss it further with him yet, but with time, hopefully the discussion will take place and a decision will be made.
I hope it works out in the best way it possibly can.
I definitely agree with BB - just because it's not "real" doesn't mean it's not real. Emotions mean more than pure pleasure. I've often said, I would find it easier to forgive WandA having sex with another person than having an emotional connection with another person. I'd find him cuddling up on the sofa with someone else worse than him shagging someone else.
Maybe it's important to find the intentions behind his actions, when you're ready to discuss it that is. Intentions can completely change an action. I'm sure he didn't intend to hurt you, but his intentions may be more forgiveable than the actions portray. Of course they may be less forgiveable too....but I guess that's why it's important to discover that.
I do think that these forums, are a positive influence in general and it would be a shame to lose one or both of you, but I can understand why it may be difficult at the same time. Generally, I've found these forums to help me deal with a great range of issues and I hope that maybe it can offer some positives to you both too.
