This thread is basically a bit of a rant inspired by the chemist I was in earlier...there was an entire section devoted to homeopathy and herbal medicine. It actually made my eye twich I was so annoyed! Fair enough have homeopathy shops or whatever (it's a free country after all) but as far as I'm concerned this fake-medicine has absolutely NO place in a medical establishment.
I feel Tim Minchin sums up my thoughts on psudoscience rather well in the song
"If you open your mind too much your brain will fall out" http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bBUc_kATGgg
I recently went a little ranty about reflexology here...
I get fed up of sex shops and websites selling herbal rubbish, especially the dangerous ones that no one bothers to label.
I recently sent my MP an email about homeopathy, which is as follows:
Dear MP,
I recently became aware of four EDMs that I find highly disturbing, in
EDM284, EMD285, EDM286 and EDM287, I ask you, as my MP to express
support for the amendments listed below to stop such potentially
harmful arbitrary unproven 'treatments' gaining an even bigger foothold
in the NHS.
As you may be aware these motions express concern about the status of
homoeopathy in the United Kingdom. Apart from amounting to little more
than spam for the supposed effects of magic water, these motions
express ill informed judgement and contempt for the overwhelming
majority of scientific and medical professionals and also the practices
of the UK's hard working doctors who engage is scientifically rigorous
proven practices, not vested interest magical thinking.
However what is perhaps most galling is the potential for harm, be it
physical or financial to the UK's people and institutions if rational
thought and evidence based policies are abandoned. Given these
difficult circumstances it hardly seems the time to throw money at such
wasteful unproven 'therapies', especially those proposed my a MP who
has branded scientists 'ignorant and racially prejudiced' for
disagreeing with his particular brand of pseudo-science, which among
other absurdities believes the moon causes blood clots.
To counter these damaging claims, amendments have been proposed that
conform to the scientific method and express support for evidence based
policies.
These are 284A1, 285A1, 286A1 and 287A1.
I gratefully ask you to sign these amendments as my MP (or at least
point these amendments out to your esteemed collogue Luciana Berger who
obviously missed GCSE science class).
Yours sincerely,
WandA
Linky for more info on sending your own MP a message:
Awesome! Geek minds think a like...I've been drafting a similar letter to my MP in the quiet periods at work today. I am also writing to the head pharmacist to complain. Pharmacist are scientists and academics...they shouldn't let this at-best-pointless-at-worst-dangerous rubbish get sold next to actual medicines it lends completely unearned legitmacy to such rubbish!
Grrrr! This has really rubbed me up the wrong way (which is hard to do because I enjoy most kinds of rubbing!)
Glad that homeopathy is beginning to be taken seriously as a dodgy exploitative business. My biggest problem with it however is the ridiculous level of dilution not the use of all herbal stuff itself since we derive many drugs from naturally occuring plants, including some of the painkillers I've been on/ addicted to over the years. Research is always valuable, particularly if it is not funded by those with a financial interest in a particular result (cynic). Homeopathy is a total scam but I hope it doesn't lead to all 'alternative' things being scratched from the list of suggestions e.g. epilepsy nurse suggested that we try using some sort of aromatherapy to relax since stress is a well known seizure trigger. I really hope we can get a balance in the system!
I wholeheartedly agree with the slight terror at the commercial concerns somehow coming ahead of treatment borne of proven scientific technique and real studies.
Placebo effect can surely be created with pretend proper medicine as well as homeopathic mumbo-jumbo?
Another thing, not at all important or in even the same ball park, but tenuously tethered to the anger-at-pseudoscience notion:
The TV shows like 'deadliest warrior' (ok don't ask, it was for a bet, I didn't mean to watch it, I was asleep at the time - all f the above excuses) have the most questionable scientific methods I have ever seen since I was setting fire to cotton wool balls in the big glass containers for collecting gases over water and pretending they were the Spanish armada as they bobbed about! It's so funny to watch and see just how they will stretch dicking about with people made of ballistics gel and axes to try and make it fit some sort of testing criteria. Funny to see though! Mythbusters is like stephen hawking compared to these well-meaning reprobates!
Thanks for the space to rant - I feel relieved now - that was brewing for a couple of days!
The problem is that much alternative medicine is a load of tripe - if it were effective - it would be made into medicine much like every other "naturally" occuring chemical that is known to treat symptoms. Some alternative treatment (especially many of the chinese herbal medicines) is dangerous and can (and has) kill.
I have an issue with "alternative medicine" however - natural aides can be ok - as you say, aromatherapy can help you but it's never going to be an accepted medicine because it doesn't "treat" anything so there are some exceptions. But on the whole - alternative medicines can be just as dangerous - if not more so, than homeopathy.
Trying to make the distinction between alternative "medicine" and alternative "therapies".
HS, as far as I'm aware - acupuncture hasn't been proved to work any better than placebo - I'd be interested if you've seen any evidence that suggests otherwise?
Perhaps a rather simplistic view but I generally hold the view that the reason something is considered alternative medicine is because it does not work. If it works science greets it with open arms and says welcome to the family, meet your brother penicillin.
It is of course important and useful to investigate some alternative medicines, they may just work but I would be perfectly happy to 'scratch them from a list' until they are proven to work. Aromatherapy might help to relieve stress, just as listening to whales might too but I don't think that merits them a place in medicine.
Placebo effect can surely be created with pretend proper medicine as well as homeopathic mumbo-jumbo?
Yes, but it *MASSIVELY* contradicts the professional code of ethics that real doctors subscribe to. That's also why there are so few genuine placebo tests possible. You can't take people with N stage liver cancer and tell half of them they this sugar lump they're taking will cure them, that's very moraly wrong... However. If you have no professional understanding of medicine whatsoever you can fuck over as many people as you want! Frickin' awesome!
I saw it on house MD one time, I claim no knowledge or brainpower to back any of what I just said up. :)
HS, as far as I'm aware - acupuncture hasn't been proved to work any better than placebo - I'd be interested if you've seen any evidence that suggests otherwise?
There was a report I heard on the news about a month ago which said that genuine real scientists believe they found that there was evidence showing increased level of pain killing hormones in the blood stream from the process. I don't know the research behind it, but angles like that are at least tangible and scientific. They aren't about some wishy washy ancient chinese body map and all that crap... And equally they aren't about sugar lumps.
I'd be interested to know if it related to gate theory - that was my amateur suspicion has to how it may have caused short term pain relief - kind of the way a TENS machine is believed to work.
HS, as far as I'm aware - acupuncture hasn't been proved to work any better than placebo - I'd be interested if you've seen any evidence that suggests otherwise?
There was a report I heard on the news about a month ago which said that genuine real scientists believe they found that there was evidence showing increased level of pain killing hormones in the blood stream from the process. I don't know the research behind it, but angles like that are at least tangible and scientific. They aren't about some wishy washy ancient chinese body map and all that crap... And equally they aren't about sugar lumps.
Is it really a really treatments if the results are so short term? Like choccy or an orgasm>?
Don't underestimate the amazing power short term pain relief can have on a sufferer of chronic pain.
You imagine having pain every minute of every day...then imagine how good it would feel to have half an hour's respite from that! If it *does* work, even if only for a little while, I can see how people can benefit from it!
I saw it on house MD one time, I claim no knowledge or brainpower to back any of what I just said up. :)
Placebo's are really really awesome. Metastudies show that 2 sugar lumps ARE better than 1, and that a saline injection is better than sugar lumps. In line with the "someone giving a shit" stuff above, the more drastic the intervnention, the more people will tend to believe it helps them.
Don't underestimate the amazing power short term pain relief can have on a sufferer of chronic pain.
You imagine having pain every minute of every day...then imagine how good it would feel to have half an hour's respite from that! If it *does* work, even if only for a little while, I can see how people can benefit from it!
