Very off topic but I'm losing it here.

Off-Topic Chat
1

I know this probably isn't the place for it but I could really do with some advice.

I'm 21 and I now live in the annexe at my parents place, I pay rent £250 a month and all my bills and food. I'd happily pay more but I only work part time due to my hypermobility and fatigue and struggle month to month to get by as it is.

My brother is 16 months younger than me, he dropped out of Uni almost a year ago and has done nothing since then. He won't even look for a job. He just sits on his computer all day. And every day I come home from work he asks me to cook something or asks me to take his dirty plates to the kitchen, its gotten to the point where I dont visit my parents house despite it being mere seconds away because it grinds my gears that he does nothing for my parents.

I don't understand how he can live knowing he is scrounging of my parents who are in debt, self employeed and both have health problems. I'd love for him to just do the washing up or hoover the house just to pay his way, I mean he has nothing else to do?

I know my dad will flip out soon as he can't stand idleness, they already don't get along and I fear it might rip the family in two. But how do I tell my brother this when we have such a strained relationship already. I'm literraly terrified of my brother, when he doesnt get his own way he can be vicious, when he gets in a low mood I cant be on my own with him for fear he will string me up or worse.

He has always brought me down from a young age calling me names and making constant digs at me, he did this with my sisters too, its as if he thrives on making others cry. Today I hoovered and mopped all the floors in their house (admittedly my dog threw up everywhere so this was my main reasoning) but I thought I might aswell clean the rest of it whilst I was there, I asked him if he would do the washing up so that mum could come home to a tidy kitchen and my brother just turned round and said just shut up you know what will happen if you keep talking. I was feeling pretty brave so I called him a selfish, ignorant asshole which usually would have got me pinned against a wall and screamed at but I got out sharpish.

Should I stay out of it and wait for my dad to fly off the handle and kick him out, at which point I or one of my siblings will probably end up taking him in and the whole process will start all over again, or should I say something to him about pulling his weight.

I don't feel like its right to just ignore it when I can see its a problem thats going to snowball, I really worry about my brother that he is depressed and has lost his purpose in life. But its no excuse for him thinking that he can live in my parents house for free without even doing a few chores.

HELP

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It hard because you've said you're in danger, usually I'd say, a person like that thrives off others fear and when you stand up to them they don't really know what to do. Personally I'd tell him that his behaviour is unacceptable. I'd also raise it with your parents though not nastily but it sounds a bit unfair that he does f all and lives in their house, whereas you pay to live in the annex. I'd certainly stop doing anything for him. Don't show him you're afraid, don't get mad, just be stone cold with him.

It's a really difficult situation to be in, you've just got to be careful not to make things worse for your parents

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This is really difficult because as I had 2 brothers we all got on fine .

You could try talking and doing a deal with him . Something like I will do the cooking for you if you will clean the dishes etc.

Try and do as many trade offs as you can do then at the very least you won't be burdened with everything .

I know its probably easier said tthan done but at least try and negotiate. Nothing lost in trying .

4

Is there anyone he listens to? You mum perhaps? Does he have any mates?

(goodness I think I am getting good at your terminology... sorry off topic)

I dont blame you for snapping the way you did the other day in the kitchen... but is there anyway to try an approach and ask him if he is depressed? Has lost direction since uni, etc? Not knowing his personality he may just snap at this too, but it may feel less like an "attack"?

This may also sound dumb but were ya'll raised where your mum and sisters did all the housework? Because why would be start now? He may be modeling that behavior? Frankly it is your parents house and they need to lay out the ground rules for him still living there. You getting the middle may make it worse.

Can you talk to your mum about your concerns. I have seen other families literally do some type of "agreement" with adult children living at home in order for them to stay there.

At some point he is going to have to grow up and take some responsibility here, that is the reality or you and your parents are going to have a sponge none of you can afford.

DO NOT TAKE HIM IN, whatever happens my dear I do not feel that would be an acceptable arrangement and besides your parents ownt that annex, not you so hopefully if you Dad blows up he will control that situation more.

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Selfish, ignorant asshole sounds about right. Stay away from him. He has bullying and violent tendencies. What you are suffering is abuse. This should not be tolerated. Have a word with your parents. He is a problem which needs addressing . Next step is to inform the relevant authorities. Sounds harsh, but true.

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The things is I love my brother and whilst he wasn't brought up to treat women this way or to beleive they should do all the work he has grown into an 'intitled' and 'superior' individual who can't accept that he might be wrong about...Well anything to be honest.

I think me and my sisters are partly to blame because when we were younger we molly coddled him when he got told off because he was the younger sibling i guess. My mum threw him out a year ago for being agressive with me, then called him and texted him days later begging him to come home, and he seemed to take this pervese sense of power in her upset and refused to come home or talk to her (he came back within a week).

My nan of all people has spoken to him, after she saw some of what was going on, I begged her not to say anything because I know my brother can hold a grudge for life if peope criticise him as he sees it as personal attack. He got angry threw stuff and walked off. But nan came over the next day and when he ignored her she told him straight I love you, but you arnt being a nice person and I think you should go to the doctors. He snapped out of it for a while after that. But he always goes back to this volitile state. Its like being around a jekyl and hide charector.

I do think he is struggling with life at the moment and we have talked about it before and I've tried encouraging him to take back up the hobbies he used to do and to keep studying so that he can go back to uni, I'm hoping he will go back next year as that would be best for both of us.

I will try my best to not take him in if he gets kicked out, as you guys are right, plus its senseless having him in the one place I can hide at the moment. But he is my brother and I wouldnt want to see him homeless..

I do think someone outside of the family circle would be a good place to look for help I honestly think he needs a councilor we've conviced him to go to the doctor, so we'll see if anything happens there.

Maybe I will just stay out of it and ignore the fact he does nothing, as I dont want the hassle. I just worry for my parents as I dont think they can really afford to have him there at all.

Thanks for all your replies, it does seem that there is really no clear cut solution but I guess I knew that. Its easy to stay away from him but that also means staying away from my parents who I love dearly.

I guess I'm just dissapointed because I always thought this would situation would change when I grew up.

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I hope you can sort it somehow but I think its not the easiest of problems that any of us can give you a really good answer to.

Problems with sex and relationships are possibly easier to sort as most of us tend to base the advice on our own experiences .

But this is quite different .

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Your brother sounds very much like my sister. She also dropped out of education (well, she pretty much never went and then refused to hand in her assessed work), refuses to do anything around that house, flies off the handle, and is abusive (threats and violence). My mum has threatened to kick her out loads of times but always caved in. I kept telling her she had to be firm and actually go through with it and eventually she did. My sister moved out for a couple of months but ahe is now back home. She is still very volatile but she has calmed down and I think she finally realises her place at home is dependent on her behaviour. She has a job now and pays my mum a minimal amount to live at home (£50 a week). I don't doubt she has emotional/mental health issues but that doesn't mean she can behave badly or that we should accept abuse from her (especially when she refuses to get help for them, even though she does recognise her moods are far from "normal"). After the last thing she did to me I decided not to have contact with her apart from when I see her at my mum's. It's not because I don't love her, it's because her behaviour isn't good for me. If she continues to make steps to be a more considerate person and stops being abusive then we can begin to get close again.

Obviously without knowing your brother I don't want to assume anything but the most important thing is that you are safe. You'll know best how exactly to do that will but it might mean not being alone with him and things like that. You also need to stop running around after him. I know you want to make the house nice for your parents but you have your own place, it isn't your mess and perhaps if your parents can see exactly how bad things would be if you didn't clean up after him, they might be more willing to act.

He is an adult and he needs to realise his behaviour is unacceptable. If he wants to live in a hovel, he can, but he needs to find his own place to do that. He can't expect to live rent free and not even pull his weight. It is also totally unacceptable to pin you up against a wall. He is being abusive and your parents can't stand by and allow him to abuse you with no consequences. By not giving him any consequences for his actions they are basically condoning his behaviour and condoning his abuse of you. We have never done it but we very nearly called the police on my sister. If he ever threatens you and you ever feel genuinely scared or he assaults you remember calling the police is an option. I know he is your brother and you don't want to do that but those actions are criminal. Even if you don't call the police, perhaps remind him that you could. Sometimes people don't really realise what they are doing is that bad (I don't think my sister really did) and a reminder might be the kick he needs to get some help for his emotional/mental health issues or to begin to change.

Sometimes tough love is the only option. You can't enable his behaviour by taking him in if he gets kicked out, cleaning up after him, or letting him get away with being abusive. If you talk to your parents about this you aren't causing him problems, he caused them himself by acting in this way. It is obviously your parents house so they have the last say on who lives their but maybe try encourage them to see how allowing him to behave like this and live there is actually enabling him to continue behaving badly and not grow up. It is always going to be hard for a parent to make their child homeless but if he refuses to meet the conditions of living at home then he has made himself homeless.

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Friday13 Wow, thankyou for your reply. Yes your sister sounds exactly like him, I'm glad that she has improved however marginally, it gives me hope. I'm sorry that you've had to keep her out of your life, sometimes I feel like that may be the best option for me and my brother as although we have some wonderful conversations I always feel like I'm walking on glass and any minute its going to shatter beneath me.

My mum and dad just don't want to know, they want an easy life and honestly its easier to just ignore the way he behaves. I've tried to tell my mum about the true extent of what he can be like when they arnt around and she won't hear it. I wouldnt tell my dad because he would probably kick him out on that basis alone.

Honestly my relationship is a lot better with my brother than it ever has been, (when we were under the same roof there were times I genuinely thought he would kill me) I havent been an angel to him either, but I hate arguing and avoid it at all cost, wearas my brother strives for that friction, and I'm begining to think its boredom that causes him to behave like it.

I'm going to keep to my annexe from now on unless my parents are there, and I already stopped doing things for him because it pisses me off after a day at work and from now on it won't happen. I did it in the past because I just wanted to get along with him, and I would have done anything to have a healthy relationship with him, from cooking for him and listening him talk about video games for hours I just wanted the arguing to stop whatever the cost.

I might get my nan to talk to him again and mention that a young lad should be pulling his weight even if its not cleaning theres plenty of manual work to be done inside and out.

Thanks again everyone for giving me some persepective. I guess I've just got to be strong and ignore what can be ignored and refuse to accept anything thats out of order.

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Lovehoney - Dani wrote:

I don't have any solid advice but just wanted to offer my sympathies - it's not nice to have to walk around on eggshells around family and it's also very frustrating to see someone taking advantage of your parents.

From what you mention I would be very surprised if your parents aren't scared or at least intimidated by his behaviour and moods as well. Even if he is not threatening them the way he does to you, there's a lot that goes unspoken in his lack of respect for their home and hospitality - it's an emotionally abusive dynamic and I do hope that someone can get through to him before it comes to the stage of him being kicked out.

It's wonderful that you do still care about him enough to be as reasonable and patient as you are about it. Just make sure you keep your safety as your first priority.

Thankyou for your kind words. I guess my parents are scared in a way, they avoid making an argument with him at all costs because they know it would spiral out of control and they would be forced to kick him out which like me they don't actually want to happen.

He is my little brother at the end of the day and I'll always love him I just don't like him. x

11

jimbogemini wrote:

Selfish, ignorant asshole sounds about right. Stay away from him. He has bullying and violent tendencies. What you are suffering is abuse. This should not be tolerated. Have a word with your parents. He is a problem which needs addressing . Next step is to inform the relevant authorities. Sounds harsh, but true.

+1 for me too. Being brought up by a bully I know ony too well how they get their kicks! You may love him like him what ever, but to say as much as you have then it's causing you the upmost grief and he needs to be dealt with. Cruel to be kind and all that stuff! Your parents need telling straight frankly just what he's like!

I wish you well.

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It seems to me there is little to be gained by trying to talk to him if he is given to violence when he doesn't get what he wants/hears what he wants to hear. I tiptoed around a violent father and an antagonistic brother till I was into my late 30's but in the end the family fragmented and, in retrospect, might have been happier if it had all happened sooner.

Perhaps the best thing is to continue to be as supportive of your parents as you can without being alone in the house with him. I'm not sure if you should discuss the situation with your parents or not. It could precipitate matters and if he gets to believe you plotted against him it will only bring further animosity your way.

Since it is your parent's house I guess it is right that they should make the decisions so waiting till your father acts is a completely reasonable position to take.

Good luck!

13

Hey Just wanted to Update you guys are just say a HUGE thankyou for all your support and advice! You guys are ACE!

I took aboard the comments about not doing anything for him and staying clear of him for a while (where possible as we are neighbours and family! :P).

I also with your guidance decided not to try to convince my parents that he was being a scrounge (afterall it was nothing they didnt already know)

After a while my brother seemed to really mellow out and recently we had some genuinely nice conversations where I encouraged his hobbys and agreed that going back to Uni would be best for him. He even cooked me food (twice!) I couldnt beleive it. :L

HE HAS NOW MOVED OUT!

Of his own accord and without any animosity between him and my parents or any (further) animosity between us.

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A result!

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Glad you came to a solution with no arguments or violence! X

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That's fantastic news echo xx

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Reading echo32b statement and the follow on comment's, it took me back a few years.
I had depression did not know it and all that this illness can cause not just to me but close friends and family as well.
It was not until I was attack at work and bitten badly and had to have a few months of work and was under my doctor for serve anxiety and panic disorder, with talking counselling I found out and it hit me hard about what I have been doing to my self and how I hurt the one's around me.
For the past 18 months I have been on medication and has turned my life around.
If your open to help there are way's to help yourself, but it has to be you to follow that road, with the help and support of family and friends, life's can change.

Dear echo hope your brother finds his angle and guilds him home at some point.

You all take care. Hugs and xx

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That's pretty fantastic news honey, I'm happy you're happy. A good result! xx