Groped

[DreamsOfChi]

Not sure what I hope to achieve with this post, perhaps just venting but here it is - At a recent socially distanced birthday meal, my friend’s boss/close friend, who I have briefly met twice before, groped me (from behind, with force, absolutely out of the blue) and tried to kiss me when we were left alone at the end of the evening. I gave him short shrift (though I didn’t slap him as my friend said I should have done) but he did half follow/half lead me back to my bedroom but I made him walk away before I opened the door (then quickly locked it behind me).

Although he has since apologised (apparently he had no recollection but I didn’t think he was that drunk) and I’ve accepted his apology (my friend is adamant it’s really out of character), I’m driving myself crackers picking apart what I could possibly have said or done to invite such an incident. He knows I’m incredibly happily married from our conversations that evening, I wasn’t flirtatious in any way, I didn’t even have my cleavage out that night (for a change!). Obviously it was a party so we’d all had some wine but I woke up hangover free so I know I wasn’t rolling or reeling so I am 100% certain that I didn’t ‘ask for it’.

If someone I knew had the exact same thing happen to them I’d be like - well, he’s in the wrong, he touched you without consent and you have nothing to feel bad about, end of story - but I’m still beating myself up for allowing it to happen. I thought I was ‘safe’, I had no reason to believe this man would try and put his hands on me. I feel naive and foolish but also angry and violated. I am also questioning if I shouldn’t just have kept quiet about the whole thing because now it’s awkward.

I suspect lots of people have found themselves in similar situations (unfortunately), but this is the first time since my Uni clubbing days that a man has put his hands on me uninvited and I am quietly furious about it. I almost wish I had slapped him but I remember thinking I didn’t want to wake anyone up/cause a fuss. Which is crazy because I would be the first person to tell someone to do just that in the same situation. Funny how your body reacts in these situations, I just wanted to get away. Oh well. That’s my socialising done for the rest of the year .

[VanillaWithSprinkles]

@DreamsOfChi

I’m driving myself crackers picking apart what I could possibly have said or done to invite such an incident.

Please don’t dwell on this, it is definitely not your fault. Even if you were drunk/flirting/wearing nothing but your underwear/single he would still have absolutely no right to put his hands on you and follow you to your room. That’s disgusting predatory behaviour and I’m so sorry you had to go through that. I can imagine it’s scared you. Just glad he did back off in the end.
Your body response to freeze/flee instead of fight is perfectly normal as well, not everyone is programmed to twirl around and slap men like we see in films, in fact I’d say most of us would have exactly the same reaction that you did. I have definitely had my fair share of gropings in clubs and I always wish I’d socked them one- but we don’t. If we hit them back that puts us in the wrong too really, for being violent and they can use that to manipulate a situation and make themselves the victim.

@DreamsOfChi

That’s my socialising done for the rest of the year .

I really hope this piece of doesn’t put you off socialising. Then he’s really won. I’d love to say that he’s an anomaly, that this will never happen to you again, but unfortunately we do live in a world where it’s a possibility. But we can’t live our lives in fear, that’s not fair on us.
I know it’s a bit extreme, but could you start a self-defence class? I have been learning karate since I was 8ish and I know that I could protect myself if a horrible situation ever did arise. It might help build your confidence back up. There are classes specifically designed for women to deal with unwanted advances and attackers.
Most importantly, I hope you’re ok and this hasn’t shaken you too much. Big love and shout if you need any support

[PleasureDrone]

@DreamsOfChi - I’m new to this forum, and I haven’t learned how to quote someone’s post yet, but you say:

“I’m driving myself crackers picking apart what I could possibly have said or done to invite such an incident.”

Short answer: you didn’t! What happened to you is exactly what #MeToo is about. PLEASE stop trying to work out what you did “to invite it”. PLEASE stop trying to take responsibility for the irresponsibility of men who think they have carte blanche to lay their paws on whatever they like the look of. This was not the result of something you did wrong, it’s the result of living in a culture of male entitlement and toxic masculinity in which far too many men grow up with zero respect for women’s bodies and personal space.

The twisted mental process of self-blame you are putting yourself through is the same one I knew as a bullied kid in school: “There must be a reason they’re doing this, therefore it must be my fault”. I un-learned that crap. I recommend you do the same.

You feel angry? GOOD! You feel violated? That’s because YOU WERE. You feel like maybe you should’ve just kept quiet? NO WAY. That’s how they get away with it, have been getting away with it throughout history. Good little girls are brought up to be meek and quiet and acquiescent and to take the blame for “tempting” men into bad behaviour. It’s a controlling narrative of bullshit and it has to stop.

Sorry if I sound shouty, but over the years I’ve seen too much of this crap: friends, relatives and work colleagues getting verbally intimidated, groped/molested …and once, a long time ago, my own girlfriend raped.

HE did this thing, not you. He did it because he wanted to, and that was all the justification his entitled brain needed. He acted without your consent, and consent is everything. I pray it never does, but as @VanillaWithSprinkles points out, the odds aren’t greatly in favour of that - so, should anything like this happen again, resist all that “good girl” conditioning: call it out and call it loud.

…and by the way, an uppercut to the jaw is so much more effective than a slap.

[DreamsOfChi]

Thank you. I absolutely agree with everything you write. I would say exactly the same thing to any one of my friends in the same position but it’s amazing how your brain makes you doubt yourself. My anxiety is high right now due to my monthly cycle so I don’t think that’s helping my trains of thought. My brain keeps going through the whole thing, how I could have handled it better, how it could have been worse and what might happen as a result of this in the future. Stupid I know.

I certainly wouldn’t let this stop me from socialising though I’m not hugely sociable as it is. I would class it more as a very clumsy attempt than a specific attack but I guess there’s a fine line. I don’t feel scared as such, more just disappointed in people, men in general and this man in particular. I think it was just the shock, I pride myself on being pretty aware of such things but I didn’t see it coming.

[VanillaWithSprinkles]

Not sure why our brains are naturally inclined to dwell on trauma, seems pretty self-sabotaging to me! I guess it’s part of the healing process, we evaluate an event, lock it away and know how to act better if it ever does happen again.
I know it’s just rehashing what I know you already know (and would tell your friends if it were them in the situation), but time is your friend here as well. It’s tough at the moment because you’re still processing it all. Eventually you’ll start thinking about it less and less until one day you won’t even think about it at all.

[Serpentwand]

Arnie in Last Action Hero - ”You wanna be a farmer? Here’s a couple of acres.”

[WillC]

There is NO excuse for his behaviour and a swift kick in the nuts is what he deserved. Don’t dwell on it, it’s not your fault. Some people are predatory arseholes. It’s likely he does it often with varying results.
I have known a few arseholes like that, and the only thing they understand is a hard refusal.

[Cassii]

This makes me so angry on your behalf, how dare he?!?

Please, please don’t beat yourself up - you did not “allow” it to happen - somebody else made a decision entirely outside of your control, it is in no way your fault. There is nothing you have said or done to invite that kind of behaviour - his behaviour is entirely on him.

If it is awkward now, that’s because HIS behaviour made it so, you did the right thing in addressing it. (And if you hadn’t addressed it I bet you would still be beating yourself up, you’re in a lose lose situation).

Sending lots of love and support your way, and I hope talking about it has helped a little.

Don’t let it put you off going out again, otherwise you are suffering even more because of his behaviour. Have fun with people you feel comfortable with, and have a wing-woman for backup if you need it.

[broom]

Your post has really concerned me. The gentleman’s behaviour and actions are completely outrageous. I have so much time for the responses already provided - especially the initial one from @VanillaWithSprinkles. It’s absolutely spot on.

Have you been able to discuss it with your husband? It feels like talking it through and gaining reassurance that you are completely clear of any blame may help - kind of what we are trying to do here.

Sending you all the support. I can’t imagine how some folk irrespective of drinking can get themselves to a place where this sort of thing is vaguely acceptable. Stay strong.

[DreamsOfChi]

I messaged my husband about 15 minutes after it happened. I didn’t want him to panic so I underplayed it a bit, though he knows this man put his hands on me and would have definitely been ‘up for it’ had I been of the same inclination. We did discuss it when I got home and I said something to the effect that I can’t imagine why on earth my friends’s boss would think it was OK, on any level. My husband said it’s obviously not and nothing I did was to blame - other than having “an irresistible arse” . Luckily my husband isn’t the jealous type so I haven’t got any drama of him wanting to go round and punch him or anything.

[DreamsOfChi]

@Cassii

Have fun with people you feel comfortable with, and have a wing-woman for backup if you need it.

The sad thing is, I did feel comfortable with him, in a group and alone - well, up until that moment. My friend, whose party it was and who I have known for 30+ years, vouches/vouched for this guy. My parents know him too, my Mum has often said how lovely he is . I just automatically assumed he’d respect me out of respect for her/them. Clearly not, must have thought I was an easy target and, of course, now I’m wondering what made him think that he could try it on. Really disappointing. I won’t make that mistake again. I thought stuff like this was behind me now. Humph.

[Serpentwand]

Possibly he had fancied you for some time or even developed an obsession, but hidden it very well, until finally the fantasy got the better of him. More likely after a few drinks.

[MsR]

@DreamsOfChi

I’m driving myself crackers picking apart what I could possibly have said or done to invite such an incident.

You didn’t do anything. People capable of behaving like this do it because they have the power to. Even if he ‘misread the signals’, he should have asked, not grabbed.

@DreamsOfChi

m still beating myself up for allowing it to happen. I thought I was ‘safe’, I had no reason to believe this man would try and put his hands on me. I feel naive and foolish but also angry and violated.

You are right to be angry, but please remember that you did NOT allow it - you stopped it, stood up for yourself and you made him walk away, and then you ensured your own safety by locking the door. You showed strength of character and you looked after yourself in a frightening situation. Be proud of yourself.

I agree with all the points others have made.

Would it help to write to this man, keeping a copy, saying that your husband knows what has happened and that if it happens again you will report him for harassment? I would let him know that you have confided in others and that he must keep a wide berth or there will be legal consequences.

Keep a diary of any interactions with him - texts, calls, messages sent through friends. Don’t respond.

Also, write down exactly how this has made you feel, using whatever language you like, then take that piece of paper to some muddy place and drive a stiletto heel through it - might relieve some of your justly felt anger.

[DreamsOfChi]

@Serpentwand

Possibly he had fancied you for some time or even developed an obsession, but hidden it very well, until finally the fantasy got the better of him. More likely after a few drinks.

Not impossible but highly unlikely, as I say, we’ve only met twice over the last 6 or 7 years years. More likely he’s just lonely, he’s widowed and hasn’t been in a relationship since his wife died. No excuse, obviously, but I suspect that’s more likely the ‘reason’.

[WillC]

Either way, i’d let him know somehow that your husband knows.

[PleasureDrone]

@MsR

You didn’t do anything. People capable of behaving like this do it because they have the power to. Even if he ‘misread the signals’, he should have asked, not grabbed.

You are right to be angry, but please remember that you did NOT allow it - you stopped it, stood up for yourself and you made him walk away, and then you ensured your own safety by locking the door. You showed strength of character and you looked after yourself in a frightening situation. Be proud of yourself.

I agree with all the points others have made.

Would it help to write to this man, keeping a copy, saying that your husband knows what has happened and that if it happens again you will report him for harassment? I would let him know that you have confided in others and that he must keep a wide berth or there will be legal consequences.

Keep a diary of any interactions with him - texts, calls, messages sent through friends. Don’t respond.

Also, write down exactly how this has made you feel, using whatever language you like, then take that piece of paper to some muddy place and drive a stiletto heel through it - might relieve some of your justly felt anger.

THIS. ALL THE WAY.

[DreamsOfChi]

@MsR

I would let him know that you have confided in others and that he must keep a wide berth or there will be legal consequences.

Oh, he knows that other people know. I mean, my friend spoke to him about it as soon as she saw him the following morning and he apologised to me over the phone that afternoon. I appreciated him ‘owning his behaviour’ though, in truth, he didn’t really ‘own up’ as he said he couldn’t remember. Which in itself is a little strange because if someone told me I’d done something that I couldn’t remember that was SO out of character for me, I’d be unlikely to apologise because I wouldn’t believe I’d done it.

I assume he must know that I’d tell my husband, I tell him everything which is why our relationship is as solid as it is . He won’t need warning off though, our paths aren’t hugely likely to cross again, even less likely after this silliness.

Funny, I was arguing with myself earlier in the shower (like you do) and, given his reputation as a ‘lovely guy’, I was sort of making allowances for him - alcohol, loneliness, whatever - but then I thought, hang on - how often have I ever been either tipsy or drunk and a bit sad or lonely and physically grabbed someone without consent and assumed something might be on the cards just because we’d shared a drink and a chat? The answer is, never. Nor has my husband or my lovely male friends. Not even in the days of Traffic Light parties at the Union .

Everyone makes mistakes but you don’t ‘accidentally’ persistently grab someone’s backside as they’re going up stairs trying to get away from you. Nor do you ‘mistakenly’ try to snog a married person, who you barely know, who is almost 20 years your junior. It’s not an accident is it? Something in your personality makes you do that. Which means all the “Oh, he’s a lovely guy” comments are a bit suspect because you have to add the caveat - “but he gets a bit handsy if he’s had a few drinks and he thinks he can get away with it.”. Even if this is the first time he’s ever done this (lucky me ), once is enough to constitute a significant lack of judgement, if nothing else.

You’re all right, this is definitely on him. Thanks for helping me work through this. I’ve talked it over with a couple of friends and they say the same, but it’s nice to have the forum hive-mind sounding board. Feeling better, hopefully enough to enjoy the weekend properly.

[MsR]

@DreamsOfChi quite right in your reading of this situation and this man, I think.

[Enchantress29]

@DreamsOfChi

I’m driving myself crackers picking apart what I could possibly have said or done to invite such an incident.

Honey as many others have said this is not your fault and you did nothing to invite such an advance. It doesn’t matter if he was drunk or completely sober what he did is not ok. We react differently when faced with things than we think and it’s easy to look back and say how we should have but it’s different in the moment so don’t dwell.

Don’t let this crappy man put you off socializing with others you like, he’s scum out of character or not plain and simple.

[notasbad]

@DreamsOfChi

It’s not an accident is it?

Think you’ve got to the root of it there @DreamsOfChi , sexual attraction can do funny things to our brains but this seems to be less that he ‘judged the situation really badly and made some stupid drunken choices’ and much more that he ‘tried to use social standing to leverage sexual contact with a younger, married lady’.

I’m so sorry this happened to you and that it still seems to happen to women time and time again in so many situations, it actually seems like things are worse now than 15-20 years ago.
Much respect for your strength in dealing with it and working through your thoughts and emotions in this way…