I have what is possibly a very silly question indeed but I've been pondering about it all day and have decided to turn it over to the experts:
How does a fully sub/dom relationship come into being? I get how during sex you slip into one role or another but some relationships are sub/dom all day every day and I can't quite work out how a relationship like this develops. I can't imagine on the first date saying "right slave, lick my boots clean and when you're though I might give you a flogging if you've done a decent job" ... or maybe you do, I just don't know!
Also, how do you get to know each other if you're not on equal terms? How would having a family fit into the picture? I'm just generally fascinated by the logistics of the whole thing!
Any sub/dom gurus out there care to enlighten a lowly newbie!? I'd be very grateful
I'd start by reassessing some of your assumptions and then maybe doing a bit of research first.
Like, sure, we're all clones and we all say stuff like "right slave, lick my boots clean and when you're through I might give you a flogging if you've done a decent job", sure I say that every day and twice on Thursdays.
As for equal terms, I'd check your assumption that we're not. Who says we're not on equal terms?
I'd start by reassessing some of your assumptions and then maybe doing a bit of research first.
Like, sure, we're all clones and we all say stuff like "right slave, lick my boots clean and when you're through I might give you a flogging if you've done a decent job", sure I say that every day and twice on Thursdays.
As for equal terms, I'd check your assumption that we're not. Who says we're not on equal terms?
Appologies for stereotyping, I was deliberately hamming up the "slave lick my boots" stuff by way of comedy and to illustrate how little I understand about the whole thing! I find the concept fascinating and alluring and genuinely would like some insight into the dynamics of a sub/dom relationship. I do get that the terms are equal, that the relationships are fair, based on mutual interests and trust but the power balance is somehow shifted and what I'm interested to know is how those boundaries are established.
This is not a silly question at all! In fact its very intriguing!
I have been in sub/dom relationships before including with my current man, and I am always the sub. I can't cope being dom.
I don't think its usually a case of diving straight into it on a first date, but more of the fact it grows with the relationship, then becomes a lifestyle when appropriate.
There are a lot of people who can get off from fetish without sex as well as sex itself, but there is also a small handful of people who can't get off at all from vanilla sex.
For me, I was "trained" by my first serious boyfriend. Although this might not make sense, it actually raised my confidence a lot being his sub. He had sex with me when he decided to, (even at my workplace and other peoples houses) he would give me a good spanking when I deserved it, and I only got what I wanted from him when he pleased.
I know already that some of you are thinking "Oh god, thats horrible, he was using you, he was being insensative to your needs" etc etc. But in fact the reality was the complete opposite! Our lifestyle and our relationship was incredibaly close! He took very good care for me, and always aknoledged my needs and desires, but it was the kick of "will he, wont he do this to me" feeling really got me over the edge! I loved it, O found myself craving his attention, so I would be doing my damndest to please him like a good sub, so he would praise me and reward me by tying me up or having rough sex with me (which I love!)
Basically, your lives become one big sex game! It's great!
Amazing! Thank you so much for the insights! I read Story of O and got ridiculously turned on by the idea of being completely submissive and the weird kind of freedom that it seemed to give!
In practical terms I don't think a fully sub/dom lifestyle would suit me at all, for me it's role play and it would be an effort to keep that up on a daily basis. For other people though I think it must be different...they're not role playing sub or dom...they are!
I do get that the terms are equal, that the relationships are fair, based on mutual interests and trust but the power balance is somehow shifted and what I'm interested to know is how those boundaries are established.
The same way all boundaries are established - negotiate them, establish consent or not, carry on, negotiate some more, rinse repeat.
Got me thinking too. Im not the dominant one in our relationship but i find myself more dominating in the bedroom because i simply love being on top. We've never done the whole "lick my boots" thing though lol Hes made it perfectly clear that its crossing his line. I enjoy being the more dominant one during sex because i like having control over most situations in day to day life aswell as in our sex lives.
For me there's a huge imaginary line around the bedroom (kitchen table/shower/woodland) and all the sub/dom stuff is fine and dandy within the sex-sphere (don't you just wish that was a real place!?).
During sex I'll give and take orders and spankings just fine but outside that there's not a hint of it. That's how I like it, that is what suits me....but part of me is also drawn to the lifestyle. It's possibly just natural curiousity but I figure it's worth exploring the concept among knowledgeable folks!
I really think it all depends on who you are with, and what the relationship becomes. I don't think its possible to walk into a club and meet a man (or woman) at random and think "this person is a person to dominate me". There is no way of knowing how a relationship will turn out. It just "becomes" that way.
See, the thing is, I do know for sure that my relationships will turn out that way because that is what I look for. I check first thing for certain things, and if they're not there, then I don't bother continuing with that person.
So there is a way to ensure how a relationship will turn out in a power exchangey way, but you need to check for it and accept nothing else if that's what you want. Since that's what I need, that is the only way I will proceed with a relationship. For me, it doesn't just "become" that way, it starts that way from the outset.
I really think it all depends on who you are with, and what the relationship becomes. I don't think its possible to walk into a club and meet a man (or woman) at random and think "this person is a person to dominate me". There is no way of knowing how a relationship will turn out. It just "becomes" that way.
See, the thing is, I do know for sure that my relationships will turn out that way because that is what I look for. I check first thing for certain things, and if they're not there, then I don't bother continuing with that person.
So there is a way to ensure how a relationship will turn out in a power exchangey way, but you need to check for it and accept nothing else if that's what you want. Since that's what I need, that is the only way I will proceed with a relationship. For me, it doesn't just "become" that way, it starts that way from the outset.
I thought it might have something to do with looking for certain traits...obviously not as obvious as someone walking around brandishing a whip but subtler things that if you were so inclined you'd know to look for. What do you Mistress Lubyanka look for in a potential sub?
Maybe I just don't know what those certain qualities are to be looking for.
It's easy, choose the qualities you want, and what you offer, and look for people with those qualities and who are looking for your qualities.
KittyPurry wrote:
Lubyanka wrote:
For me, it doesn't just "become" that way, it starts that way from the outset.
I thought it might have something to do with looking for certain traits...obviously not as obvious as someone walking around brandishing a whip but subtler things that if you were so inclined you'd know to look for. What do you Mistress Lubyanka look for in a potential sub?
That's a long complex question which differs for each individual. First I'm looking for a human being, then a human being who take trust and honesty and consistency and reliability and a whole lot of other things seriously, then a human being who takes all those things seriously and who is also interested in a bottom rôle in a power exchange relationship, and so on and so on and so on. I seek the same things many people seek, I just add bottoming into the mix.
I don't seek a "sub", I seek a person who wants to submit to me. Honestly, these stereotypes really bother me because I think they take the humanity out of it all and then people assume we're doing something so strange, but it's really just like what you do, we just specify it more, and earlier. This isn't rocket science, it's basic dating.
Maybe I just don't know what those certain qualities are to be looking for.
It's easy, choose the qualities you want, and what you offer, and look for people with those qualities and who are looking for your qualities.
KittyPurry wrote:
Lubyanka wrote:
For me, it doesn't just "become" that way, it starts that way from the outset.
I thought it might have something to do with looking for certain traits...obviously not as obvious as someone walking around brandishing a whip but subtler things that if you were so inclined you'd know to look for. What do you Mistress Lubyanka look for in a potential sub?
That's a long complex question which differs for each individual. First I'm looking for a human being, then a human being who take trust and honesty and consistency and reliability and a whole lot of other things seriously, then a human being who takes all those things seriously and who is also interested in a bottom rôle in a power exchange relationship, and so on and so on and so on. I seek the same things many people seek, I just add bottoming into the mix.
I don't seek a "sub", I seek a person who wants to submit to me. Honestly, these stereotypes really bother me because I think they take the humanity out of it all and then people assume we're doing something so strange, but it's really just like what you do, we just specify it more, and earlier. This isn't rocket science, it's basic dating.
Eeek again I'm sorry for stereotyping, it's all coming from a position of naeivity rather than a wish to offend. Thank you for correcting me though because it'll help me be clearer when talking about it in the future External Media
In this case my naievity also extends to dating which I have absolutely no experience of, I've never been on a single one! My partner and I got together when we were young and we were friends before hand, the relationship just sort of evolved as a natural extension of the friendship!
I like what you said about the concept of looking for someone who will submit specifically to you. This makes a lot of sense to me as I'd never taken on a remotely submissive role before I met my OH but again it's something just seems natural with him.
For me, it doesn't just "become" that way, it starts that way from the outset.
What do you Mistress Lubyanka look for in a potential sub?
I don't seek a "sub", I seek a person who wants to submit to me. Honestly, these stereotypes really bother me because I think they take the humanity out of it all and then people assume we're doing something so strange, but it's really just like what you do, we just specify it more, and earlier. This isn't rocket science, it's basic dating.
Eeek again I'm sorry for stereotyping, it's all coming from a position of naeivity rather than a wish to offend. Thank you for correcting me though because it'll help me be clearer when talking about it in the future External Media
In this case my naievity also extends to dating which I have absolutely no experience of, I've never been on a single one! My partner and I got together when we were young and we were friends before hand, the relationship just sort of evolved as a natural extension of the friendship!
You may not have had experience with dating, but you certainly must have had experience negotiating relationships of all kinds, friends, your partner, your family. You must have had experience of telling people what you wish to avoid and what you seek out, and asking people to accommodate your preferences. You must have had experience with people telling you what they dislike and what they seek out, and you must remember your efforts to accommodate them, what you were able to do and what you weren't, and communicating those things. Doesn't any of that ring a bell?
Well, negotiation is that simple, and negotiating relationships is precisely that simple. Specify, communicate, negotiate, agree (or not), continue, encounter problems, negotiate again, agree (or not) again, rinse, repeat forever.
What I can't figure out is why so many people seem to have some weird idea that sexual partnerships are somehow different and special and separate to any other relationship, because to me, it's all the same, it's all about getting along in the optimal way possible with other human beings in different situations.
Power exchange relationships are exactly like every other kind, except that we suffer more stereotype shit because the usual examples in mainstream which normally give people a whack with the clue bat (films, television, printed media, images, and so on) are absent, so all you've got is the sex industry. So somehow most people seem to think that if it's power exchange, then I must be like a pro dom in leather all the time and my partner must be a grovelling worm all the time, and nobody stops for a second to appreciate the bullshitness of that?? I mean, even pro doms aren't like that all the time.
I just wish people would stop to think for a second before assuming that the existence of diverse sexual practices must therefore mean that the practitioners of those practices don't want and need the same things from our relationships as every other human being.
For me, it doesn't just "become" that way, it starts that way from the outset.
What do you Mistress Lubyanka look for in a potential sub?
I don't seek a "sub", I seek a person who wants to submit to me. Honestly, these stereotypes really bother me because I think they take the humanity out of it all and then people assume we're doing something so strange, but it's really just like what you do, we just specify it more, and earlier. This isn't rocket science, it's basic dating.
Eeek again I'm sorry for stereotyping, it's all coming from a position of naeivity rather than a wish to offend. Thank you for correcting me though because it'll help me be clearer when talking about it in the future External Media
In this case my naievity also extends to dating which I have absolutely no experience of, I've never been on a single one! My partner and I got together when we were young and we were friends before hand, the relationship just sort of evolved as a natural extension of the friendship!
You may not have had experience with dating, but you certainly must have had experience negotiating relationships of all kinds, friends, your partner, your family. You must have had experience of telling people what you wish to avoid and what you seek out, and asking people to accommodate your preferences. You must have had experience with people telling you what they dislike and what they seek out, and you must remember your efforts to accommodate them, what you were able to do and what you weren't, and communicating those things. Doesn't any of that ring a bell?
Well, negotiation is that simple, and negotiating relationships is precisely that simple. Specify, communicate, negotiate, agree (or not), continue, encounter problems, negotiate again, agree (or not) again, rinse, repeat forever.
What I can't figure out is why so many people seem to have some weird idea that sexual partnerships are somehow different and special and separate to any other relationship, because to me, it's all the same, it's all about getting along in the optimal way possible with other human beings in different situations.
Power exchange relationships are exactly like every other kind, except that we suffer more stereotype shit because the usual examples in mainstream which normally give people a whack with the clue bat (films, television, printed media, images, and so on) are absent, so all you've got is the sex industry. So somehow most people seem to think that if it's power exchange, then I must be like a pro dom in leather all the time and my partner must be a grovelling worm all the time, and nobody stops for a second to appreciate the bullshitness of that?? I mean, even pro doms aren't like that all the time.
I just wish people would stop to think for a second before assuming that the existence of diverse sexual practices must therefore mean that the practitioners of those practices don't want and need the same things from our relationships as every other human being.
Grrr.
Ok, done now. :)
Ahh yay I'm getting to some the answers I was really after!!! I really wanted to try and understand what (if anything) changed about the dynamics of a relationship involving power exchange. I guess it was pretty silly to even wonder if it was different but it's something I have never experienced so I didn't want to assume it was the same. I had twigged that most of the media stuff was rubbish and was just curious to know a bit more about the reality from people who know what they're talking about.
Eeek again I'm sorry for stereotyping, it's all coming from a position of naeivity rather than a wish to offend. Thank you for correcting me though because it'll help me be clearer when talking about it in the future External Media
In this case my naievity also extends to dating which I have absolutely no experience of, I've never been on a single one! My partner and I got together when we were young and we were friends before hand, the relationship just sort of evolved as a natural extension of the friendship!
You may not have had experience with dating, but you certainly must have had experience negotiating relationships of all kinds, friends, your partner, your family. You must have had experience of telling people what you wish to avoid and what you seek out, and asking people to accommodate your preferences. You must have had experience with people telling you what they dislike and what they seek out, and you must remember your efforts to accommodate them, what you were able to do and what you weren't, and communicating those things. Doesn't any of that ring a bell?
Well, negotiation is that simple, and negotiating relationships is precisely that simple. Specify, communicate, negotiate, agree (or not), continue, encounter problems, negotiate again, agree (or not) again, rinse, repeat forever.
What I can't figure out is why so many people seem to have some weird idea that sexual partnerships are somehow different and special and separate to any other relationship, because to me, it's all the same, it's all about getting along in the optimal way possible with other human beings in different situations.
Power exchange relationships are exactly like every other kind, except that we suffer more stereotype shit because the usual examples in mainstream which normally give people a whack with the clue bat (films, television, printed media, images, and so on) are absent, so all you've got is the sex industry. So somehow most people seem to think that if it's power exchange, then I must be like a pro dom in leather all the time and my partner must be a grovelling worm all the time, and nobody stops for a second to appreciate the bullshitness of that?? I mean, even pro doms aren't like that all the time.
I just wish people would stop to think for a second before assuming that the existence of diverse sexual practices must therefore mean that the practitioners of those practices don't want and need the same things from our relationships as every other human being.
Grrr.
Ok, done now. :)
Ahh yay I'm getting to some the answers I was really after!!! I really wanted to try and understand what (if anything) changed about the dynamics of a relationship involving power exchange. I guess it was pretty silly to even wonder if it was different but it's something I have never experienced so I didn't want to assume it was the same. I had twigged that most of the media stuff was rubbish and was just curious to know a bit more about the reality from people who know what they're talking about.
I think I'm beginning to understand what your problem with understanding was. From my perspective, I am still every bit as much in the dark about what you wanted as I was at the start. I don't understand which answers I gave were the ones you were seeking, and I still don't understand what it is you're confused about.
For that reason, I am getting the impression that you have little experience in figuring out what you want enough to specify it explicitly, and without that, negotiation is pretty useless. So since you apparently have so much difficulty with specifying explicitly, I'd suggest you work on that.
How about by starting to explain again what answers it is you are seeking, exactly? And I mean exactly.
What do you mean, "what changed about the dynamics of a relationship involving power exchange"? Changed from what? Obviously every relationship is different, and none of us know what you personally are assuming about your relationships in particular. So if you explained what assumptions you're making about your relationships, then we'll know where you're starting from.
I mean, honestly, I'm finding this very frustrating, I feel like you're poking and prodding me, you ask incredibly vague questions which I have no hope of understanding, I ask you to clarify and you just repeat the same vague incomprehensible questions, you make statements and assumptions which in my mind just seem ridiculous, you offer nothing whatsoever of what your starting point is or what you know already, and when I start to get irritated you get happy! So this really discourages me from bothering with this question anymore, frankly.
I'm sorry you're getting annoyed, I get chirpy if I sense anger because it's an emotion that scares the bejesus out of me and in my childish way I try and avoid it by making light of situations. Appologies for this I know it's rather pathetic in someone my age but I am having counselling to help me deal with my fear of conflict.
Back to the point, you're absolutely right in that I'm struggling to articulate myself, what I should've asked from the start was: "What is it like to be in a sub/dom relationship? Are there any major differences from non-power exchange relationships?"
I have only been in one long term serious relationship in which power exchange only takes a very minor role and then only in the bedroom. My actual experience is therefore negligable. I very briefly met someone in a submissive role in a relationship and all I was able to learn in the short conversation we had was that he was forbidden from masturbating. I was completely intreagued by this but didn't get the chance to ask what he enjoyed about following such rules. I have wondered about it a few times ever since!
I've seen a few docmentaries but being media produced and therefore sensationalist, it's always been what I'd regard as the more extreme end of the spectrum. I got the feeling a lot of it was hammed up for the cameras and little to no attention was paid to how anyone involved felt, what their motivation was, what problems they encountered and how they overcame them.
Everything I've been able to find out has been about the sex aspect and I'd like to know more about the rest of the lifestyle. If you could point me in the direction of some reliable resources that would be amazing. I'm aware that my difficulty expressing myself may have alienated me completely so I understand if you'd rather just take a step back. However I'm hoping you'll forgive my idiocy and share some of your wisdom!
Ooh sorry it took me so long to write that last bit I missed the last couple of posts.
Thank you so much Carly for seeing past my complete inabiltity to find the right words and somehow still managing to understand me! You got it exactly right, I basically wanted some general understanding and information on something I knew nothing about!
The vagueness was a combination of not knowing exactly what I wanted to know and not being very good at expressing myself. The more upset I got about not being able to explain myself the harder I was finding it to write!
Thank you to Lubyanka for the insights though and for graciously bowing out to avoid aggro!
I honestly think it's a bit counter productive to view other peoples relationships in comparison with your own - there are so many variables.
For example I'm very sexually submissive but I would never want my husband to tie me up, humiliate me or call me horrible names yet for some that's an essential part of being dominated, I can't understand those sort of dynamics at all but those people get something out of it.
Some dom/sub relationships are extremely unhealthy, emotionally speaking, but then so are many "normal" relationships - the key thing is that they need to be MUTUALLY fulfilling, if only one partner is getting their needs met than it's wrong on every level.
If it's good for you and your partner and you both fully understand your reasons behind your sexual needs, that's all that matters.
I honestly think it's a bit counter productive to view other peoples relationships in comparison with your own - there are so many variables.
For example I'm very sexually submissive but I would never want my husband to tie me up, humiliate me or call me horrible names yet for some that's an essential part of being dominated, I can't understand those sort of dynamics at all but those people get something out of it.
Some dom/sub relationships are extremely unhealthy, emotionally speaking, but then so are many "normal" relationships - the key thing is that they need to be MUTUALLY fulfilling, if only one partner is getting their needs met than it's wrong on every level.
If it's good for you and your partner and you both fully understand your reasons behind your sexual needs, that's all that matters.
Thank you (or should that be spank you!) very much for your contribution!
I definately agree that thinking about my own relationship isn't especially helpful for understanding other peoples sub/dom relationships. I guess I'm just nosey and want to know what other folks get up to and what they get out of it! I'm a scientist and a researcher so I could pass it off as anthropology I guess!
There's possibly a selfish element too of gathering and synthesising information to see what tips and ideas can I get from learning about other people's naughty shennanigans!
There's possibly a selfish element too of gathering and synthesising information to see what tips and ideas can I get from learning about other people's naughty shennanigans!
xxKPxx
That's not selfish, that's the whole point of the forum! If we can't ask questions about eachothers' lifestyles, then we might as well not bother discussing anything! I'm really glad you asked the question, because it's something I'm interested in too.
I've read a few blogs on it... none that I can particularly remember though. If I come across any more on my travels through the internet, I'll post the links here... I find that reading blogs is a great way to have a peek into different relationships and see the dynamics involved.
