Wits End

[Mister_haytch]

Hello,

I’m at my absolute wits end.

My wife and I have been together for 11 years and our sex lives have never been great while we’ve been married. We had great sex when we first met but it’s been far from good for the past 15 years.

I feel I have been patient but she’s just not into it. Maybe I’m to blame knowing this in the ‘hooe’ it’d get better.

I’ve been encouraging her to seek help for a non-existent libido. She tried hypnotherapy but didn’t get on with it during COVID. It was remote and admittedly not as effective as face to face. She hasn’t revisited it.

We have been to Relate for advice which, to be quite honest, made me feel awful. There was an angle that I was pushing her and not in tune with her feelings. It made me feel like a rapist. It was awful. We went along with it but didn’t do much to reignite any fire.

Recently she has been to the GP who referred her to the women’s hospital which placed her on a programme of sensual massages which are nice, and I think we’re both enjoying, but it’s so programmed at one massage a week which I have to initiate. I had a frank discussion over how I felt and she has tried but there is zero spontaneity. I have bought toys for us both. She has rejected them. I bought some cuffs thinking it might be kinky but she didn’t like the idea, I (internally) interpreted as though she didn’t trust me. I would recommend we watch female friendly porn to hopefully get her in the mood but feel embarrassed and fearful of more rejection.

I don’t know what else to do. It’s killing me inside. I raise it and it kills me as it’s something she’s struggling with, but keeping quiet is killing me. My libido is high Vs almost non-existent. I find myself masturbating to porn just to get my kicks which is making the distance greater. I have no clue where to go thereafter. I feel completely rejected and she appears to be making my minimal steps to want to resolve.

I’ve taken her for weekends away and she falls asleep and I end up in a mood because I feel shunned. She booked a hotel for my birthday and got a hand job but was made to feel as though I should be lucky I got that because of the programme. We’re due to go to away in Jan and Feb… But I fear the same, be grateful for what you get

Next week we’re on the penetrative step of the programme. A big step but I’m not hopeful. I now find myself not wanting to bother and the rejection hurts. Instead I’ll just have a wank on my own when I can. Absolutely miserable.

Anyone experienced anything like this?

[DLJL]

Sorry no, I am sure that someone in the forum will be able to offer sage advice. Good luck.

[Mister_haytch]

Thanks. I really hope so.

[JoCat]

That’s a lot to unpack, and I’m too blunt to comment on the majority of that so I’ll stick with this.

I hadn’t had sex in the last year of my marriage because I stopped initiating it to see if he would step up, but he didn’t. That wasn’t the only reason that I ended the marriage, but it was a factor.
We had a lot of sex when we first got together, but it gradually got less and less. I wouldn’t have married him or been in a relationship with him at all if our sex drive and style weren’t compatible.
Now I know likes and dislikes can evolve but as long as we both loved sex, that was half the battle. The sex I have now is so different than the sex I had then, I’m much happier overall too. It was the right thing for me to end that marriage.
I wouldn’t be in a relationship with no sex. That’s how I feel about that.

Injury or health issues that are causing a low sex drive are obviously separate from what I’m talking about here.

[Mister_haytch]

Thanks Jo. Appreciate the frankness.

A sexless marriage is not something I can endure. It’s the constant feeling of initiation and either being rejected (ok, too tired etc etc) or she goes along from what appears to be out of duty. The later is the worst as I feel as though there’s no consent. There is, but it’s like there’s no one there.

Tonight I asked if I could touch her breasts, we were having a good night. But she’s just said “that’s all”, boundaries are fine, I understand them but now I feel like there’s no trust again. I know we’re on a ‘programme’ but to be told this just hurts. It’s like a knife.

This year I do fear for the marriage. I love her but I can’t keep feeling this way.

[JoCat]

Would she be ok with an open marriage?

[Mister_haytch]

I’ve wondered whether she’d consider visiting a swingers club but too fearful to ask on the basis that she’s not interested in one person, she’s not likely to be interested in others.

My initiatial thoughts would be that we’d go as a couple and watch others to get into the mood, then we’d do our own thing. Not to have others involved. I think it’d be too much of a step.

I’m now upstairs while she’s downstairs oblivious to the facts that I’m in tears and don’t know what else to do.

[JoCat]

Dude no.

You’re setting yourself up for failure with your suggestions. You’re thinking of asking a woman with no sex drive and who doesn’t want to have sex, to go to a swingers club. I feel like you’re not hearing yourself.

I completely understand the want and need for a spark of interest but you’re going about it the wrong way. Toys, bdsm, swingers clubs…these are what you want and she doesn’t want to do what you want to do.

[Mister_haytch]

I get that and I thought that is what you were referring too. I’ve never done it and I would never dream of pushing her into an uncomfortable zone, but feel she’s not even trying to resolve the issue. The toys were a thing which seemed to get her interested, she bought herself one but has never used it. I mention it and she says she’s like to try it herself. That’s fine, the therapist has suggested she becomes comfortable with herself, but she’s not even done that. I’ve given her space and time but nothing.

I’m trying to find ways to spark some kind of fire. I have done everything suggested and now getting desperate.

I’ve tried speaking and she clams up and can’t find words.

[JoCat]

An open marriage where you can have sex with someone else with your wifes consent.

As hard as it is, what you’re doing doesn’t sound like it’s helping, and it could be pushing her away.
Keep the sex talk for when you’re with the therapist so that the conversation is controlled and healthy. And while you’re there, ask her if she wants to have sex again and what actions she’s taking to get to that point.
And for you, you have to decide your next steps. If nothing changes, then what are you going to do?

[Mister_haytch]

Clearly not. I’m just useless in another aspect of life.

[Honey-Bear]

Has your wife talked to your gp about how she is feeling? Could it possibly be something medical which is causing her low libido? Perhaps depression, menopause. Blood tests might be an idea if she hasn’t already had them?
It’s good for your to talk and not bottle it up.

[Horny44]

I really feel for you and the situation you find yourself in. You’re not alone in how you are feeling and I am having tough times at the moment too with mismatched libido.

Only advice I can offer is try and focus on the positive aspects of your marriage. The programme is an encouraging sign that your OH appreciates your frustration and is willing to take steps to make it better.

I think you are going to need lots of patience and resolve in the short term but hopefully you’ll keep moving forwards bit by bit and it will all be worthwhile. Hang in there but don’t let your mind build expectations up too much - that has been my downfall lately.

[steviefun]

Horrible position for you to be in and I hear that you feel you can’t win. I think if you can’t talk face to face, write down how all of this feels in a letter to her. Your feelings are as valid as hers.
Depression, stress, contraceptive pill are all huge factors in libido. It doesn’t mean she doesn’t love you, but you shouldn’t be treading on eggshells either.
You are not alone and we can assist here with a proof reading or suggestions if it would help x

[Stuck_nomore]

Sounds like she has mental health issues. If you are not committed to the long term, and I’m including her in this, I’d say you both need counseling help. Specifically her, possibly unknown trauma? My marriage has been almost 30 years and we have had ups and downs to almost no PIV for 2 years or so. Until I got counseling, support, mental health meds this wasn’t going to change and I had to be the one to change this. I’m thankful I did just that but its been an almost 2 year of searching all of this out… our sex life is awesome and fulfilling now. I hope you both figure this out

[Cameinz]

Ok so I guess I’m coming at this from the other angle. I am or at least can be the wife with no libido. I struggle with my mental health as well as having a chronic pain and chronic fatigue health condition. We have been married for 18 years and neither of us had had sex before marriage although I had been sexually assaulted by my first boyfriend.

Sorry- that feels like a lot of backstory​

Over the years we have gone for long periods of time having no sex at all mainly because I had no interest. My husband would happily have sex every day. I would say part of the reason for my lack of interest was my pain/fatigue by the end of the day and the knowledge that time spent having sex is time I’m not sleeping for but the other reason was I just didn’t enjoy sex much. We have used toys on and off over the years but not loads and I’ve never been very comfortable talking about anything sex-related so struggle to articulate what I do or don’t like. Last Christmas we had sex and suddenly it was like I fell in love with having sex. We had the LH advent calendar and agreed we would use everything that came out. We spent time playing together and for possibly the first time I actually orgasmed. I found the more I had sex the more I wanted it. Over the year pain and fatigue (and life and kids) got in the way but this Christmas I made the effort to have sex. I was honest with my husband that I no longer want to just have sex but I want to have great sex which I enjoy. We have talked a lot. I have shown him exactly what I want. We have used vibrators together and played more and had sex most days. Once normal life happens again next week I don’t know what will happen to our sex life but I do want to continue us enjoying each other.

Sorry I feel like that was a long ramble. I think I wanted to share from the other side how it can feel and maybe give some slight insight into what makes a difference for me

[Mister_haytch]

There was definitely a mental health part to this and in some part medication.

She has post natal depression for about 12 months after birth, those were tough times but she is through that via her own admission…at least in term of happiness.

Medication wise she’s not on antidepressants but does take anti convulsants which have not been recognised as an issue and she’s been on them long before we’ve got together.

Menopause wise I (selfishly) hope that’s not coming into the mix as I don’t think another layer of this complex onion is needed right now.

We will see what happens with the next stage of the programme. I just hope she initiates as I am struggling with attempting to start something only to be rejected.

[onlysortabixxx]

I was in a similar situation with my wife after about 5 years of our marriage. A lot of what you mentioned resonates with how I felt. When I hit my end of the road, I wrote out how I felt, read it a bunch of times, really got comfortable with what I wanted to say and how I wanted to say it (take some time with this), and sat her down. This was the stay or leave conversation. She realized in that moment how serious and hurt I had become, and that changed everything. 6 years later we have 2 lovely kids and a healthy but still improving sex life. I obviously skipped a lot of backstory but that’s the gist of it. I can’t tell you the outcome of your situation, but only you can decide if you can live this way. I couldn’t, so I decided I was done if nothing changed and made that clear.

[mrssaffa]

Sorry to hear you are struggling. I don’t have first hand experience but if this ever happened as a partner I would want to know if I was doing something to make him unhappy or not doing enough to make my partner happy. It would be a very tough conversation but I would want to know
However if I’d explained myself why I am not in a certain space then I would want patience and love as I worked through it. It sounds like you have definitely been those things from what you have said.
Have you thought about talking to someone for yourself, separate from the plan you are on? Even just to get strategies to cope and stay strong mentally.
I suppose you need to decide if this is a dealbreaker as well. But that’s a big decision, she may just need more time.

Sex drive can naturally ebb and flow through life, especially for females.
Are there any other factors? You don’t have to answer, just stuff to think about. I don’t know the fine details of your lives of course. Is she happy in her job? Does her life seem fulfilling? Do you help her with stuff around the house? Is there any unsolved resentment that may have built up unchecked? Do you check in with her, how is she really doing (working past the “im fine”)
Is she self conscious about her body? Does she do any self care? What’s the emotional aspect of your relationship like? Do you guys talk about deep things? Is the home a happy and safe space or has this all clouded the air and made it a tense environment? Does she feel like a project?
In my opinion, and I am by no means experienced, is that sex is just one, albeit an important one, aspect of a relationship. If we neglect our emotional relationship, our team dynamic, even our spiritual relationship, the rest suffers too. For us ladies, sex is so closely entwined with our emotional state that for most of us, you can’t have one and not the other to varying degrees.

It’s also worth looking back and seeing if when you were sexually intimate, (obviously I don’t know you both at all so don’t take any of this personally I’m just throwing ideas out) did she orgasm? Did she fake orgasm? Were you a generous lover or did she cum last? Has she always been reserved? Has she maybe struggled to ask for what she wants? Is she stressed with the children? Did her body change after children? Does she think what the children did to her body is the result of sex, and in turn now put off? Of course she will love her children but a lot does change as I’m sure you know.
There’s so much that could seem like one little thing, that has spiralled and resulted in being turned off, and it may not even have anything to do with you.
All these things may be difficult to unpack just the two of you, especially if she finds communicating about this difficult as it is. So it might be worth marriage counselling and taking care of the emotional side of the relationship instead of singling out the sexual side as the only problem (again, just a stranger, I don’t know the ins and outs) as it would be easy to unintentionally make her feel broken. That would depress me too.
You have to be honest with yourself and figure out if she’s worth it, if the life you have together is worth the work and the patience you might need to get to the other side.
I strongly recommend marriage counselling though.
All this is meant with genuine kindness and I really hope you guys can work things out. So many success stories on here but you do need to decide if she’s worth the work and if you have the strength to work through it together as a team without necessarily a guaranteed result.

[Anony]

I’m going to approach my response in a completely different direction than sexually.

If she has no libido. As a person born as male I can only assume how devastating that would be and I can completely understand how it makes you feel.

So. Having acknowledged the “bad,” that this makes you feel. Have you put a sincere emphasis on doing things completely non sexual with no expectations of sex as a result?

You know. Things that women would emotionally appreciate. There’s a long standing rule. If you want to make a woman horny. Clean.

But do this without making her horny as the end result.

I’m basically asking you if you’ve been the romantic in the relationship (from her perspective.) You know her better than I do.So. In your opinion what would turn her on “emotionally.”

You’ve mentioned the growing distance and that’s a serious flag to address if you want to stay with her.

Would taking her out more often to dinners be romantic? Would taking her on a shopping trip to buy regular clothes be romantic? (This has always worked for me even when not trying to be romantic since most guys don’t have the patience for it).

Have you tried doing housework (while she puts her feet up), that’s typically “womanly housework?” Dishes. Laundry. Taking care of the kids, to give her a night of relaxation with a glass of wine? Giving her a sensual actual massage not to be sensual but to make her simply more relaxed and feel attended to?

Foot massages are great for this. So are neck massages while she’s watching whatever show she wants to watch while you (I in this case), keep my mouth shut about hating watching “Housewives of whatever Drama City of Choice that comes up next.”

Those things that are all about her. And not about yourself. Might help close the distance. And that distance, is normal over time.

Doing what it takes to fix that distance isn’t just the woman’s “job,” in the relationship. It’s equally or more so the “man’s.”

Maybe she feels unappreciated. Undervalued. Insecure. Like she thinks you may feel she’s just a sexual outlet and child bearer for your benefit.

(But is clearly obvious from what you’ve said here that that isn’t the case, but may not have said or shown her to be true in her mind.)

It is going to sound weird saying this but this is one of those rare situations it is true. Sometimes talking about the issue only makes it worse, maybe it makes her feel guilty, like there’s something wrong with her, like she isn’t a good wife or whatever else may be going through her head.

I would advise you to talk less. And do more. With no expectation or even mention of sex. And if you really want to get her to think, actually say no if she offers it and tell her you want her to know how important she is to you for more than just sex.

Sometimes as “men” it’s hard to take our minds off sex. “Women” know this and feel that pressure.

Take that pressure away. Focus on her emotionally not by talking but by doing, (with actual no expectations of sexual recompense.)

There’s no shame in masturbation while you’re trying to fix your relationship. As long as you spend way more time making her realize she’s important to you in many more ways than just sexual gratification, than you do masturbating.

Take that sexual pressure off her and put yourself in her shoes.

Put that emotional pressure to show you care on yourself for her benefit (without even telling her you’re doing it), while you’re washing dishes. Telling her to lay back and relax while you do stuff so she can and so on.

And see what happens.

If you try that for real and it makes no difference. Then I suspect you’re in trouble. Women appreciate actions more than words just as much as any soldier appreciates a commanding officer doing what they would ask you to do as the grunt on the list.

Lead by example, with actions, and not words and see what happens is the single biggest difference you can make in my opinion. And the single biggest test.

If she sees this and puts forth no more effort into your relationship for you while she sees you doing it for her.

Well…